On the bubble, bigger stacks playing against small stacks with junk?

[blueskies]

You should be thankful for these ppl. If you lose, blame lady luck, not the player because they are giving you a good chance to double up.

 

[pjokay]

You should be thankful for these ppl. If you lose, blame lady luck, not the player because they are giving you a good chance to double up.

No its the opposite, unless I am the small stack they are shoving! I was referring to approaching the bubble where I would have plenty of blinds and big stacks then keep shoving small stacks with trash and the tournament then goes on and on and my good lead reduces.

In essence though when I phrased the question I was thinking of satellites, should have been clearer, the way you should play at the end of satellites can be much more polarised as no payout structure, all places are equal. It still applies to normal tournaments but no where near to the same extent.

 

[Index12]

Meh, it’s free chips if I happen to be the short stack and I’m ahead. Otherwise yeah, I’d be folding those junky hands myself. I don’t really know why they would play those kinds of hands. Though I supposed if your stack can withstand the loss and the tournament’s on the bubble it would make some sense to call with decent but not junky hands.

 

[pjokay]

Meh, it’s free chips if I happen to be the short stack and I’m ahead. Otherwise yeah, I’d be folding those junky hands myself. I don’t really know why they would play those kinds of hands. Though I supposed if your stack can withstand the loss and the tournament’s on the bubble it would make some sense to call with decent but not junky hands.

It's not calling with junky hands, it's big stacks keep shoving small stacks with junk hands because they are big stacked. However on satellites it just prolongs it. Small stack if good players are going to call if extremely short and hold something half decent, especially when the "big stack" is doing it over and over again because you know they are playing trash.

Ultimate when you were correctly waiting for the bubble (talking satellites here) you then yourself start to become at risk.

 

[Index12]

It's not calling with junky hands, it's big stacks keep shoving small stacks with junk hands because they are big stacked. However on satellites it just prolongs it. Small stack if good players are going to call if extremely short and hold something half decent, especially when the "big stack" is doing it over and over again because you know they are playing trash.

Ultimate when you were correctly waiting for the bubble (talking satellites here) you then yourself start to become at risk.

Ahh my bad on that. But we’re in agreement here. That last part shouldn’t really be happening unless you’re trying to fold when you have average stacks for some reason. Normally we see the top half of the tournament folding their way in.

 

[pjokay]

Ahh my bad on that. But we’re in agreement here. That last part shouldn’t really be happening unless you’re trying to fold when you have average stacks for some reason. Normally we see the top half of the tournament folding their way in.

It's fairly standard though on a satellite bubble. Take AK your just under 50% against any pair, but if you have two small stacks with only a couple of blinds your taking a risk getting involved against another player that might knock you out when you are guaranteed to go through. Obviously this depends on how many chips you have yourself and hands like this I would defo target small stacks if possible.

My original scenario throughs a spanner in this though sometimes with people chipping up small stacks and then you becoming a small stack yourself if it happens too many times.

Risk taking in satellites is very easy if you are big stacked as it will not cost you the satellite but if you have built up enough chips to fold your way in, I do not see anything strategically wrong with that and think its common in satellites. The reverse is true in normal tournaments as you want to keep building your stack although I would not want to take stupid risks on the bubble but I would be aiming to double still.

 

[theANMATOR]

If I'm the big stack on the table - I'm not really concerned about how others are playing - except the CO sb & BB. I'm putting massive pressure on those 3 players if they are short stacked. Honestly - I will make them play for their tourney life - with any marginal hands, J/7 o. Yes I'm telling them - either you play for stacks/life - or those chips are mine. And sometimes I loose the flip, but 50% of the time or more I'm winning, because I'm doing this with ALL hands, premium and marginal holdings.

I called a shove from sb with 9/4 offsuit yesterday and beat A/K. Just how it goes when I have the big stack.

When I'm at a safe stack size 30-40bb but not the chip leader - I'm avoiding all in preflop except with premium holdings. I'm not short stack bullying - I don't need to, and I'm not concerned about busting others out.

When I'm the short stack - well - I play differently than others do - so just keep believing that I have AA and we will be cool.

 

[pjokay]

If I'm the big stack on the table - I'm not really concerned about how others are playing - except the CO sb & BB. I'm putting massive pressure on those 3 players if they are short stacked. Honestly - I will make them play for their tourney life - with any marginal hands, J/7 o. Yes I'm telling them - either you play for stacks/life - or those chips are mine. And sometimes I loose the flip, but 50% of the time or more I'm winning, because I'm doing this with ALL hands, premium and marginal holdings.

I called a shove from sb with 9/4 offsuit yesterday and beat A/K. Just how it goes when I have the big stack.

When I'm at a safe stack size 30-40bb but not the chip leader - I'm avoiding all in preflop except with premium holdings. I'm not short stack bullying - I don't need to, and I'm not concerned about busting others out.

When I'm the short stack - well - I play differently than others do - so just keep believing that I have AA and we will be cool.

Makes perfect sense when you're big stacked to make the moves your making and of course if your big stacked you can push your stack as you like. I think I just find the satellite scenario frustrating where people could put pressure on a small stack or even multi-people could call and check it down but instead get out the way for a big stack shoving junk at the small stack and then the satellite seems to go on and on.

Also see the other scenario where (say double to anyone else at the table) just shoves every single hand. If people are folding I suppose makes sense in a normal tourney but again in a satellite seems a silly risk near the bubble when another player can halve your stack with a call.

 

[theANMATOR]

Makes perfect sense when you're big stacked to make the moves your making and of course if your big stacked you can push your stack as you like. I think I just find the satellite scenario frustrating where people could put pressure on a small stack or even multi-people could call and check it down but instead get out the way for a big stack shoving junk at the small stack and then the satellite seems to go on and on.

Also see the other scenario where (say double to anyone else at the table) just shoves every single hand. If people are folding I suppose makes sense in a normal tourney but again in a satellite seems a silly risk near the bubble when another player can halve your stack with a call.

Yeah - I do see your point related to satellite play. To be frank - I'm not too in-depth with satellite strategy. For me - it's all about myself getting the ticket - really don't concern myself with how others are playing, except to watch tendencies so I can have more knowledge on my opponents to gather more chips.

Once I hit that magical number I will button up and not play anything other than AA KK or small ball around the blinds/button. No reason to risk anything when I already have a lock on a ticket.

 

[123cards321]

satellites

lately I have been seeing this a lot in satellite tournaments its pretty much an all in derby even if you manage to make a stack when deep youll probably have to go all in once the all in mode comes in when the blinds are big especially in sites like pokerstars. It really is annoying and i have reduced significantly the amount of satellites I play, I think only the ones with higher buyins are more normal.

 

[mariale_1990]

It does not bother me, I dont feel any type of frustration, I think that most of the time it brings benefit, if it is true that many times what they do with it is to make the one who has the least record recover, and even enter a certain risk, but I think we should not play alone to survive, all that is part of the game and we must try to see how to deal with such situations

 

[Alekxandrovi3]

It seems to me that a bubble big stacks should unite against small, forcing them to call with minimal chances. Never play heads up against a small stack without big pairs or hands like AJ +, because it doubled up, he will just wait for only the strongest hand, and having the stack is below average, you have every chance to take his place and fly instead.
Well and if you have a small stack you should not be upset if you are playing against a trash, it is the only correct strategy against you. There's nothing to do about it.

 

[pjokay]

It seems to me that a bubble big stacks should unite against small, forcing them to call with minimal chances. Never play heads up against a small stack without big pairs or hands like AJ +, because it doubled up, he will just wait for only the strongest hand, and having the stack is below average, you have every chance to take his place and fly instead.
Well and if you have a small stack you should not be upset if you are playing against a trash, it is the only correct strategy against you. There's nothing to do about it.

Oh indeed, it has benefited me in this type of situation when I have been small stacked. And yep stacks uniting against a small stack is good play, although this should always be instinctual as a tactic and not overtly expressed as I have seen a couple of times where one player has told the others to check it down.

 

[pjokay]

lately I have been seeing this a lot in satellite tournaments its pretty much an all in derby even if you manage to make a stack when deep youll probably have to go all in once the all in mode comes in when the blinds are big especially in sites like pokerstars. It really is annoying and i have reduced significantly the amount of satellites I play, I think only the ones with higher buyins are more normal.

It does not help though on Stars that so many of the satellites are turbos and severely overlap with the target tournament. The turbo one's do get a lot of allins. I try and stick with normal speed where I can.

 

[zinzir]

Okay keep seeing this at the end of satellites and getting frustrated by this. Anyone else find this irritating?

Sometimes a couple of players left to the bubble, smallest stacks having 3/4 blinds and bigger stacks take them on with absolute junk ie 510o. Invariably they call before they get blinded out and double up.

Then this keeps happening and your place that was secure becomes at risk.

Anyone else find this frustrating? Yes, put pressure on small stacks but not with absolute junk.

In my opinion, it's not the "bigger stacks" that go in with junk, it's the aggressive players who happened to build large stacks, probably by going all in with marginal hands all along, and getting lucky. Besides, those players make an all in call risking only a small part of their stack, so it's not such a bad move looking from their perspective. They don't care if the player with the short stack doubles up and survives the bubble and you are the one who ends up busting, they have no idea who you are or what you are trying to do.

 

[fundiver199]

Some players are just not very good, and maybe they see the satellite as a way to have fun. Especially if its a freeroll like the 888 "Lucky Blast", that award 600 5$ tickets twice a day. So they continue playing, even they have already secured their ticket, and extra chips have absolutely no value for them.

I saw a guy with a huge stack, who almost failed to get his ticket in 888 "Lucky Blast", because he just HAD to play AA, and of course he got sucked out on by an even bigger stack, who also HAD to play whatever. He only managed to get his ticket, because the tournament had already entered hand for hand play.

At the end of the day you should just smile at this. Its a freeroll or a low buyin satellite, so you cant expect everyone to be very good or serious, and you dont even want them to be, because overall their mistakes allow you to cash more often

 

[pac818man]

Okay keep seeing this at the end of satellites and getting frustrated by this. Anyone else find this irritating?

Sometimes a couple of players left to the bubble, smallest stacks having 3/4 blinds and bigger stacks take them on with absolute junk ie 510o. Invariably they call before they get blinded out and double up.

Then this keeps happening and your place that was secure becomes at risk.

Anyone else find this frustrating? Yes, put pressure on small stacks but not with absolute junk.

You should welcome junk hands especially if you're short stacked. I do. It's more the odds will be on your side so let'r rip!

 

[maxivega]

It is the nature of the game. Fight lowest stack to put pressure and force most of them to leave their cards. It does not irritate me, I think it is a valid argument to exclude people from the tournament and move as quickly as possible the good prizes. It is known that the smallest stack seek a monster hand or high cards to play and try to survive, you have valuable information to your advantage.