Collin Moshman - Sit 'n Go Strategy study group

[basse]

Would anyone be interested in doing a joint reading of Collin Moshman's "Sit 'n Go Strategy" book?

I was thinking that we could read ~30 pages a week, and have follow-up discussion in this thread, or write reviews of sections as we go along, trying to synthesize the take-away lessons. I think this would greatly help my learning from the book, as it otherwise tends to sort of blur by.

 

[BearPlay]

That's a great idea!

Moshman's book was instrumental in shaping up my SNG game years ago.

Just as an FYI, Colin's wife, Katie Dozier, is also a goddess of the felt (46-table grinder) and is a CC member, a DragTheBar coach, and a lovely person.

Maybe she would drop by every now and then with a few notes for your group.

In any event, I wish you the best!

Bear

 

[romych007]

I believe that the idea is doomed to success and I think you can do it , good luck!

 

[basse]

That's a great idea!

Moshman's book was instrumental in shaping up my SNG game years ago.

Just as an FYI, Colin's wife, Katie Dozier, is also a goddess of the felt (46-table grinder) and is a CC member, a DragTheBar coach, and a lovely person.

Maybe she would drop by every now and then with a few notes for your group.

In any event, I wish you the best!

Bear

Thanks! That's cool that she's on here. Adds some incentive to do a good job

 

[Debi]

They are in Europe right now - but I am sure at some point one of them would drop by to post in this thread.

 

[scooba13]

I'm in

 

[horizon12]

I read this book 2 times, advise everyone, indispensable book who plays micro buy-ins sng or mttsng...

 

[Colbefc]

I'd be in this, though i havent read the books yet.

 

[basse]

I'd be in this, though i havent read the books yet.

Neither have I Anyone who wants to reread is of course welcome, but my idea was mostly aimed at people who have not read it.


Edit: Actually, I take that back. I think it's equally meaningful for first read or reread.

 

[floweryhead]

I've read his book a few years ago and have a copy lying around somewhere. Count me in. Are we going to bring up points and discuss them? How will this thread work?

 

[basse]

I've read his book a few years ago and have a copy lying around somewhere. Count me in. Are we going to bring up points and discuss them? How will this thread work?

This is my first time doing a read-through of a book on a forum, so I'm very open to suggestions.

My plan (barring brighter suggestions) is to read through ~30 pages per week, and then post a synthesis, along with any thoughts/questions that came up. That would hopefully get some amount of discussion going.

Would people prefer setting a fixed schedule? Because in that case I propose reading up to page 40 (Low blinds play: Intro, Critical Poker Concepts, and hands To Play During Low Blinds) by Wednesday next week. From now until then, I plan to make a post for each of those 3 sections, as well as the actual introduction to the whole book. Anyone else who feels like doing the same is more than welcome, as I think writing a synthesis helps learning a lot. Then we can also discuss any differences in take-away points.

 

[basse]

Alright, I'm going to get things started with a short note on the Introduction. Normally I would not have posted anything for this section, as it is extremely brief, but I had some questions that I'm curious to hear other people's opinions on.


Introduction


There's not much to say about this section. The very broad strategy is presented; Play cautiously in the early stages, while adopting an aggressive approach later when blinds are large.

Crucially, the introduction ends with a note saying that the concepts assume a 10-man SNG with 2000-chip starting stacks and a 10/20 blind structure. It is also stated that the concepts apply equally well to 9-man SNGs or 1000 chip starting stacks and 5/10 blind structure.


Questions

• How well do these concepts apply to other SNG structures? Being in the US, it seems like the availability of SNGs is very very limited, so I might not be able to play 9/10-man SNGs of the appropriate type. For example: How well do they apply to 10-man 500 chips 10/20 blinds? How well do they apply to 6-man SNGs?

 

[gus201]

I would like to join in here if the time and day is good for me and my work schedule .

 

[floweryhead]

I couldn't find my copy so I've ordered another off amazon and am awaiting it's arrival. However, I found some notes that I'd written on the intro about the blind structures but I'll wait until I reread it before I make too much of a comment. What my note says is "How long are the blind for each level?" So I'm guessing it isn't specified. But, like I said, I don't remember so I'll wait until I re-read it. Amazon quoted 25th of Oct for arrival.

 

[scooba13]

Alright, I'm going to get things started with a short note on the Introduction. Normally I would not have posted anything for this section, as it is extremely brief, but I had some questions that I'm curious to hear other people's opinions on.


Introduction


There's not much to say about this section. The very broad strategy is presented; Play cautiously in the early stages, while adopting an aggressive approach later when blinds are large.

Crucially, the introduction ends with a note saying that the concepts assume a 10-man SNG with 2000-chip starting stacks and a 10/20 blind structure. It is also stated that the concepts apply equally well to 9-man SNGs or 1000 chip starting stacks and 5/10 blind structure.


Questions

• How well do these concepts apply to other SNG structures? Being in the US, it seems like the availability of SNGs is very very limited, so I might not be able to play 9/10-man SNGs of the appropriate type. For example: How well do they apply to 10-man 500 chips 10/20 blinds? How well do they apply to 6-man SNGs?

I don't think the basic concept changes - however, when you're 9 instead of 10 or 1,500 instead of 2,000 you need to adjust them a shade. In the first case you loosen up opening requirements a smidge (fold AJ utg with 10, consider raising it, esp suited, with 9). In the second case you will need to become more aggressive sooner with fewer starting chips.

With 6 handed play you need to loosen up to compensate for the blinds coming round more frequently.

In most structures (even turbo and short handed) you still have time to sit back and evaluate the other players for a few rounds before giving yourself hard decisions to make.

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Great idea! I'd like to join this "book club". This will be a re-read for me. I've read it once 2 years ago, then I read it again about a month later.

Alright, I'm going to get things started with a short note on the Introduction. Normally I would not have posted anything for this section, as it is extremely brief, but I had some questions that I'm curious to hear other people's opinions on.


Introduction


There's not much to say about this section. The very broad strategy is presented; Play cautiously in the early stages, while adopting an aggressive approach later when blinds are large.

Crucially, the introduction ends with a note saying that the concepts assume a 10-man SNG with 2000-chip starting stacks and a 10/20 blind structure. It is also stated that the concepts apply equally well to 9-man SNGs or 1000 chip starting stacks and 5/10 blind structure.


Questions

• How well do these concepts apply to other SNG structures? Being in the US, it seems like the availability of SNGs is very very limited, so I might not be able to play 9/10-man SNGs of the appropriate type. For example: How well do they apply to 10-man 500 chips 10/20 blinds? How well do they apply to 6-man SNGs?

My opinion on this question: 9 man vs. 10 man will be a very small, almost unnoticeable adjustment. 2000 chips vs. 1500 chips will be a small adjustment. 2000 chips vs. 1000 chips will be an adjustment, the principles still apply but you'll really need to take down the early pots you play in, or you'll enter push/fold mode too far from the bubble. 500 chips vs. 2000 chips will be a significant adjustment. The whole tourney will essentially be push/fold and as such the value of winning the blinds in the earliest levels is rarely worth risking your whole stack. The value of winning the blinds in the later stages is monumental.

6max is a whole different game, and while some of the basic principles still apply everything needs to be re-worked, the payouts are different, the aggression is different, the opening requirements are different, the players who choose to play are different.

I'm in the US and I can generally have 4 screens going on 1 poker client whenever I want it but I have to play a mix between $2.20-$5.50 buy ins and sometimes I have to mix regular with turbo. I prefer turbo and can usually get 3-4 screens going on turbo, but not always. I'd prefer to play 3 screens of the same speed than 4 screens of mixed speeds.

 

[floweryhead]

Hi Basse. I had an idea whilst I was playing on PokerStars last night. As it's your thread why don't you set up a homegame on pokerstars for followers of this thread. If we had enough members we could discuss the gameplay and (if willing to share) have more access to the hands in question (through our shared hand histories). Just an idea but one that we could use to demonstrate ideas from the book. If we keep it at the lowest buy in limit and everyone took it seriously it could work well

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Hi Basse. I had an idea whilst I was playing on PokerStars last night. As it's your thread why don't you set up a homegame on pokerstars for followers of this thread. If we had enough members we could discuss the gameplay and (if willing to share) have more access to the hands in question (through our shared hand histories). Just an idea but one that we could use to demonstrate ideas from the book. If we keep it at the lowest buy in limit and everyone took it seriously it could work well

For US players (like myself and the OP) we'd have to play for play money on Pokerstars.

 

[basse]

Great idea! I'd like to join this "book club". This will be a re-read for me. I've read it once 2 years ago, then I read it again about a month later.



My opinion on this question: 9 man vs. 10 man will be a very small, almost unnoticeable adjustment. 2000 chips vs. 1500 chips will be a small adjustment. 2000 chips vs. 1000 chips will be an adjustment, the principles still apply but you'll really need to take down the early pots you play in, or you'll enter push/fold mode too far from the bubble. 500 chips vs. 2000 chips will be a significant adjustment. The whole tourney will essentially be push/fold and as such the value of winning the blinds in the earliest levels is rarely worth risking your whole stack. The value of winning the blinds in the later stages is monumental.

6max is a whole different game, and while some of the basic principles still apply everything needs to be re-worked, the payouts are different, the aggression is different, the opening requirements are different, the players who choose to play are different.

I'm in the US and I can generally have 4 screens going on 1 poker client whenever I want it but I have to play a mix between $2.20-$5.50 buy ins and sometimes I have to mix regular with turbo. I prefer turbo and can usually get 3-4 screens going on turbo, but not always. I'd prefer to play 3 screens of the same speed than 4 screens of mixed speeds.

Thanks for the detailed input! Do you play full-ring games when you play? I'm fine with different buy ins (when I start playing for actual money), but I do strongly prefer full-ring over 6-man.

 

[basse]

For US players (like myself and the OP) we'd have to play for play money on Pokerstars.

Like missjacki said, it'd have to be play money for us to participate. I think it'd also be hard for me to schedule regular games, but I wouldn't be opposed to trying.

 

[intents09]

Ok I do have the book, so I'm in!

 

[Jacki Burkhart]

Thanks for the detailed input! Do you play full-ring games when you play? I'm fine with different buy ins (when I start playing for actual money), but I do strongly prefer full-ring over 6-man.

I primarily play full ring. I've been messing around with 6max somewhat, but don't really feel like I have my "sea legs" yet.

 

[floweryhead]

For US players (like myself and the OP) we'd have to play for play money on Pokerstars.

That'd be even better as only people who are interested in the strategy would want to play then

 

[Fahrenheit451]

I study Moshman book now, and I'm willing to discuss both points that I don't understand well and those what I think I understand.

I am not sure though, that it is practical to play our training sessions in special place where only members will play.
1) we are not so many, it'll be hard to coordinate time and place
2) we need "ordinary" players too to master Moshman strategy

I think, we could make some list of torneys where we can meet to practice together with every other folks and then share our hand histories.

I am playing at FTP and FullFlush.
MTT freerolls on both sites and SnG STT full ring 0.5$ at FTP.

 

[basse]

I study Moshman book now, and I'm willing to discuss both points that I don't understand well and those what I think I understand.

I am not sure though, that it is practical to play our training sessions in special place where only members will play.
1) we are not so many, it'll be hard to coordinate time and place
2) we need "ordinary" players too to master Moshman strategy

I think, we could make some list of torneys where we can meet to practice together with every other folks and then share our hand histories.

I am playing at FTP and FullFlush.
MTT freerolls on both sites and SnG STT full ring 0.5$ at FTP.

I had similar worries in terms of setting up a private league. It might not be the best way to test/learn the strategy of the book to play it entirely against itself.