$2 PL O 6-max: Is my Chasing right?

budaloto said:

I wait open straight and almost best flush

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budaloto said:

I wait open straight and almost best flush

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eetenor said:

The fact your V bet pot on turn suggests they had a very strong hand so you could fold turn if you thought they were very strong. Were they to have a straight with spade blockers we need to fold.

Vs standard face up players we can over fold in this spot. After all you have all the straight combos in your range here and they still bet pot.

You can get PokerStrategy.com Equilab- Omaha for free and use to explore hands like this

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monkeytilter said:

I'd fold this hand preflop.
I wouldn't want to be out of position and potentially multiway with a so-so hand that can't make the nuts - "Getting a nice price" preflop doesn't make up for that. I'd be interested in what more seasoned PLO cash players think, I suspect a good reg. might play the hand but it is barely profitable vs just giving up the 0.5bb.

I think at 1c/2c calling the flop is fine (vs better players/higher levels maybe you could check raise - that flop is not the greatest for preflop raiser with 30/<30 vpip/pfr?).
Fold the turn for sure.

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eetenor said:

This is a playable hand vs a limp 100% the hand has great components to it. We are not vs AAxx very often so A95 rainbow will be a big money maker for us vs a player that limps not opens--- because it is the 99 the V does not hit pair plus broadway draw when we make a set as where TT might. We have 2 flush draws both of which can make straight flushes--just a little more big pot EV- K9 can make straights 98 can make nut straights vs a player limping mid range cards. K9s allows Qxs to be live so we could dominate other big pot flushes. BB's random hands can be dominated by us as well and we are playing vs weak V who often play face up by betting nuts and calling with non-nut hands.

this is a great hand to take advantage of post flop errors and win large pots for .5bb---You do however have to over fold in spots because your flush draw is not the nuts

If you use equilab to study you will refine those post flop spots.

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monkeytilter said:

1. This is a raised pot not a limped one🤔

2. Maybe I'm missing out but I tend toward nut making hands when defending in a high rake environment where villains are not folding enough.
How big a pot are you confident playing if one of your "flush draws" hits and makes a 9 high flush? ..a K high flush?
I just feel we'll end up in win a small pot/lose a stack territory too often - playing guessing games if our hand is good enough - being out of position makes this a lot more likely.

"K9s allows Qxs to be live".. just as likely Axs* is live in a raised pot!
*I know I have a lot more Axs in my button opening range than Qxs, what about you?

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Rmi said:

I tried to try but I have no idea how to learn strategies for Omaha. Is it too difficult?

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eetenor said:

Sorry mis read your post
the same does apply when playing vs face up V this hand has strengths to win big pots and if you have post flop skills it is not a hand that gets crushed post flop very often

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eetenor said:

PLO Mastermind has a plo trainer for free it is limited to 1 sizing 100bbs--at 100bbs this is a call from the SB it is the only version of K998 that is a call but it is a call--vs a weak player fine call after a pot sized open

great tool all you have to do is create an account for free

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monkeytilter said:

""face up villain"
how do we know he's face up?
what are you putting villain on here?

"..post flop skills.."
Can you be more specific?
Can you estimate the EV on calling this hand? I'd say it's very marginal and worth less than 1bb net (with perfect GTO play) - worth it with 1c/2c rake?

"it is not a hand that gets crushed post flop very often"
..but when the pot gets big it often will be, that's my point about not knowing where you are with it in big pots

Out of position aiming at middle set, non-nut flush and so-so straight draws - I'm still not convinced🤔

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eetenor said:

When he pot pots this spot he is face up- this is not a range advantage spot so why pot pot? the value target range for a turn pot call is very narrow so they are playing face up. Either they are potting for folds or potting for fish that is face up play- there is no complexity built into these actions when no complexity exists you are playing face up. Therefore we can just fold turn here and stack them in other spots where they do not know ranges and we hold the situational nuts

Your EV estimate is based on solid players not V who over play hands and use incorrect sizing as they did in this spot. this V is worth stacks in spots they should be worth 10-20bb--estimate of course but this hand says a lot --if it holds true they are worth 5x the standard equity this hand has. That is what exploit play is really all about the extra EV that weak players hand out in the wrong spots.

the only issue is does this Villain lose and leave- under those circumstances I can agree to folding this hand. As we may have only 1 shot at stacking them so no need to take this spot.

You seem to be thinking about one side of the equation with this hand. We can over flush weak players they do not have to have only the AXs there are 4 cards- as we saw here 98 was the nut straight draw so saying we only have so so straight draws is inaccurate. We have both good draws and so so draws but not terrible draws that cause us to stack off to a better draws ie we do not stack off on KJx draw hoping to hit a T etc etc

yes this hand has it's down side but our skill advantage is not in just playing nut hands but working with a full range of hands to win more often.

That said again this is ok to fold here other K998 hands should be folded this is not some must play hand my 100% call was based on an incorrect flat assumption sorry for that.

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monkeytilter said:

How is this face up? Can you put the villain on a range you can play against?
I think they are most likely just blasting off but a decent player will take this line with the made straight + flush draw or the nut flush draw - very polarised and not face up at all. As it was they could well be blasting off with an overpair and we still had to fold!

"as we saw here 98 was the nut straight draw so saying we only have so so straight draws is inaccurate"
We were discussing K998ds as preflop fold😉

You're right, I have focused on the downsides of this hand but only because IMHO they outweigh the positives of the risk/reward here.

So what is your "exploit" plan? Hit the flush and hope it's not us getting overflushed?

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eetenor said:

Perhaps you missed my earlier statement that I ran it in a solver and the solver calls. So, vs a decent player who has post flop skills it would still be a call by us if we ourselves had equal skill to the decent player--if we do not then we fold preflop--solver always has the same skill level as itself.

Your desire to fold is fine- it is just not the only way to play the hand.

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eetenor said:

Perhaps you missed my earlier statement that I ran it in a solver and the solver calls. So, vs a decent player who has post flop skills it would still be a call by us if we ourselves had equal skill to the decent player--if we do not then we fold preflop--solver always has the same skill level as itself.

Your desire to fold is fine- it is just not the only way to play the hand.

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$0.25/$0.50 cash not 1c/2c cash (where the cap is a lot lower).

2. What is the expectation on calling this hand?


So -0.28, a tiny bit better than losing the 0.5BB small blind, but this expectation will be eroded away by the rake at 1c/2c.