"AQ vs BTN triple barrel — did I fold too tight on river?"

Hi, is this fold to tight?
I have no clue why I folded this one...
Just had a spontaneus feeling of villains timing, he just bet to fast into this board.
I could not at the time put him on any specific hand the maybe a flush draw or the A3s or maybe 54s that he bluffed me on the river.
Is he betting a Ax here?

What you guys think, i'm so confused in this spot.

/Appreace the feedback - lifeisariver

GG Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): 147 BB
CO: 23.5 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 34)
BTN: 78.5 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 36)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
BB: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 34.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: 109.5 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♠ Q♠

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 4 players) 3♥ 3♦ A♥
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 4.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 4.5 BB

Turn: (19 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (49 BB, 2 players) 9♠
Hero checks, BTN bets

Preflop
Standard open.

Flop
Because its a multiway pot, I like, that you started defensively with a check. Its a bit of a way ahead way behind situation. If someone flopped trips, you are drawing to two outs, and if not they are mostly drawing to 3 outs at best. There is a flushdraw, which you kind of want to bet for value against, but I think, the reasons for checking are more important.

BTN bet, and the two other guys fold, which is great, because now its much more likely, you have the best hand. BB was the player most likely to have trips, since he has the widest range, so getting him out of the way is a great result, and you did this without investing a single chip. Getting this information for free is one of the main benefits of checking. As played I think, the play is to just call and keep his bluffing range alive.

Turn
Its not great, that the flushdraw completed, because this is definitely part of his range, when he bet the flop into 3 opponents. Its even less great, that his did not seem to slow him down at all. On the countrary he size up compared to his bet on the flop. I think, hands like AJ or AT would slow down now and either check or go for a smaller bet.

So your hand has pretty much been reduced to a bluff catcher now. Even so it does feel really tight to check-call top pair good kicker on the flop and then fold on the turn to a less than pot sized bet. So I am ok giving this action, but I am really hoping for an A or 3 on the river, or that he slow down and check back.

River
This card changed nothing. My decision here depends on reads and bet sizing. If he bombed the pot again, then I think, you made a good fold. Yes he might have bluffed you, but I dont think, the general population at 2NL trippel barrel often enough to justify a lot of hero calls on the river in big pots. You also dont block any value.

If you want to sometimes call down with AK or AQ in spots like this, then do it, when you have the K or Q of hearts, so that there are less combos of flushes, your opponent can have. Of course there are some very bad players at 2NL, so anything is possible. But if the opponent have any sort of skills at all, then no worse hand than AQ is bombing the turn and river, when the flushdraw completes.

fundiver199 said:

But if the opponent have any sort of skills at all, then no worse hand than AQ is bombing the turn and river, when the flushdraw completes.

Click to expand...

Should specify that I mean for value of course. You still beat bluffs, but as I said already, most of the time unknown microstakes players have the kind of hand, they are representing, when they bomb the turn and river. It was also a multiway flop, where 4 people saw the flop. Which obviously increase the risk, that someone flopped either trips or a flushdraw. So top pair is not exactly a monster here, not even with a good kicker.

tiscoatthedisco said:

Здравствуйте, эта складка не слишком тугая?
Понятия не имею, почему я сложил эту карту...
Просто спонтанно почувствовал, что злодей выбрал подходящий момент, он слишком быстро сделал ставку на этой доске.
В тот момент я не мог точно сказать, какую именно комбинацию он мне выдал, возможно, флеш-дро, или туз-3, или, может быть, 54, и что он блефовал на ривере.
Он что, ставит здесь топор?

Что вы думаете по этому поводу? Я совершенно запутался.

/Приветствуем отзывы - lifeisariver

GG Poker - $0.02 NL (максимум 6 игроков) - Холдем - 6 игроков
Раздача конвертирована с помощью PokerTracker 4

Герой (MP): 147 BB
CO: 23.5 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
BTN: 78.5 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 36)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
BB: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 34.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: 109.5 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

SB ставит SB 0.5 BB, BB ставит BB 1 BB

Префлоп: (банк: 1,5 BB) Герой имеет A♠ Q♠

сбросить карты , Герой делает рейз до 2,5 больших блайндов, сбросить карты , Баттон коллирует 2,5 больших блайндов, Малый блайнд коллирует 2 больших блайнда, Большой блайнд коллирует 1,5 больших блайнда

Флоп: (10 BB, 4 игрока) 3♥ 3♦ A♥
SB чекает, BB чекает, Герой чекает, BTN делает ставку 4.5 BB, фолд , фолд , Герой коллирует 4.5 BB

Ход: (19 BB, 2 игрока) 5♥
Герой чекает, BTN делает ставку 15 BB, Герой коллирует 15 BB

Ривер: (49 BB, 2 игрока) 9♠
Чеки героев , ставки BTN

Click to expand...

Привет, lifeisariver!

Во-первых, вы точно не сумасшедший , и это не самое очевидное место. Давайте спокойно разберемся.

Префлоп​

A♠Q♠ — стандартный открытый ключ. Многоканальный вариант допустим.

Флоп: A♥ 3♥ 3♦​

Чек вполне оправдан в многостороннем противостоянии. Как только баттон делает ставку 4,5 больших блайнда против 10 больших блайндов, и карты возвращаются к вам, колл — стандартная процедура. У вас топ-пара с хорошим кикером. Нет причин повышать ставку.

Ход: 5♥​

Это интересная улица. Третья черва завершает флеш, а несколько комбинаций по 4x составляют стрит (например, 54s). Когда BTN делает ставку 15 против 19 (большой размер), его диапазон становится поляризованным:

• Промывания (X♥Y♥)
• Некоторые 54-е
• Иногда сильный топор с сердцем
• Блеф с блокатором сердца

Ваше решение здесь уже спорное, но оправданное. Вы победили Акса, не имея ни одной карты в руке, и не смогли блефовать.

Река: 9♠​

Эта карта мало что дополняет, кроме 54, которая уже была. Когда он делает ставку на ривере после такого сильного размера ставки на терне, ключевой вопрос:

Он что, здесь использует тройной топор?

В NL2 важны тенденции численности игроков. Большинство игроков:

• Не стоит слишком блефовать.
• Не делайте слишком тонкую ставку.
• Делайте крупные ставки, в основном, с сильными руками.

Если он типичный игрок на микролимитах, то его линия ставок, похоже, в значительной степени ориентирована на:

• Смывы
• Полные залы (33, иногда формата А3)

На этом уровне очень немногие игроки блефуют тройным блефом после крупной ставки на терне, когда выпадает флеш.

Поэтому, вероятно, складка не слишком тугая по сравнению с бассейном.

---

Настоящая проблема​

Вы сказали:

«Мне просто показалось, что на этой доске он будет играть слишком быстро».

Click to expand...

This is not analysis; this is intuition without structure. What you need is the following:

• Assign a range on the flop
• Narrowing at the turn
• The value of counting against bluffing on the river

If high-value combinations clearly dominate → fold is the right choice.
If the bluff is realistic → call.

---

Final Verdict​

Against an unknown NL2 BTN player with this ball size, a folded river game with AQ (without a core) is likely to look solid and disciplined , not weak.

You're not confused — you think. And that's a good thing.

If you'd like, let me know your river bet size and result so we can discuss how to calculate combinations in more detail.

I cannot see the river bet size. But pressuming it was not small, I would have folded as well. For sure I would have folded for a big bet. BTN looks like they have not bad stats, so they are probably compentent enough to not to bet lower Ace than yours for value. Theoretically they could be bluffing, but this not happen very often at NL2, so folding here should be +EV long term.

You have a bunch of fish.... just bet the flop, turn, etc... keep it simple.

As played, it depends on the river size.

tiscoatthedisco said:

Hi, is this fold to tight?
I have no clue why I folded this one...
Just had a spontaneus feeling of villains timing, he just bet to fast into this board.
I could not at the time put him on any specific hand the maybe a flush draw or the A3s or maybe 54s that he bluffed me on the river.
Is he betting a Ax here?

What you guys think, i'm so confused in this spot.

/Appreace the feedback - lifeisariver

GG Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): 147 BB
CO: 23.5 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
BTN: 78.5 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 36)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
BB: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 34.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: 109.5 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♠ Q♠

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 4 players) 3♥ 3♦ A♥
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 4.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 4.5 BB

Turn: (19 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (49 BB, 2 players) 9♠
Hero checks, BTN bets

Click to expand...

Based on your gameplay, I'd say you were right to fold, but there were some mistakes that led to it. On the flop, you should have been more aggressive, gone all-in, because he definitely bluffed with Ax.

nelomec said:

Based on your gameplay, I'd say you were right to fold, but there were some mistakes that led to it. On the flop, you should have been more aggressive, gone all-in, because he definitely bluffed with Ax.

Click to expand...

This sounds like a 'win the least', 'lose the most' type of strategy.

tiscoatthedisco said:

Hi, is this fold to tight?
I have no clue why I folded this one...
Just had a spontaneus feeling of villains timing, he just bet to fast into this board.
I could not at the time put him on any specific hand the maybe a flush draw or the A3s or maybe 54s that he bluffed me on the river.
Is he betting a Ax here?

What you guys think, i'm so confused in this spot.

/Appreace the feedback - lifeisariver

GG Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP): 147 BB
CO: 23.5 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
BTN: 78.5 BB (VPIP: 31.43, PFR: 17.14, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 36)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
BB: 112.5 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 34.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
UTG: 109.5 BB (VPIP: 31.25, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♠ Q♠

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, BB calls 1.5 BB

Flop: (10 BB, 4 players) 3♥ 3♦ A♥
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 4.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 4.5 BB

Turn: (19 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (49 BB, 2 players) 9♠
Hero checks, BTN bets

Click to expand...

As played you have to call almost any bet size but you could have avoided this by betting the flop. By checking you under repped your hand and gave the green light to a weaker ace or flush draw.

Four Dogs said:

As played you have to call almost any bet size but you could have avoided this by betting the flop. By checking you under repped your hand and gave the green light to a weaker ace or flush draw.

Click to expand...

'Under repping' your hand is not necessarily a bad thing. Also known as protecting your checking range, if we dont check strong hands on the flop sometimes then we can be bluffed of our range later in the hand.

As for this hand i think its probably better to xraise flop, as played i agree with folding river, possibly.even folding turn given its so hard to find bluffs

CHESSMAN_KZ said:

Привет, lifeisariver!

Во-первых, вы точно не сумасшедший , и это не самое очевидное место. Давайте спокойно разберемся.

Префлоп​

A♠Q♠ — стандартный открытый ключ. Многоканальный вариант допустим.

Флоп: A♥ 3♥ 3♦​

Чек вполне оправдан в многостороннем противостоянии. Как только баттон делает ставку 4,5 больших блайнда против 10 больших блайндов, и карты возвращаются к вам, колл — стандартная процедура. У вас топ-пара с хорошим кикером. Нет причин повышать ставку.

Ход: 5♥​

Это интересная улица. Третья черва завершает флеш, а несколько комбинаций по 4x составляют стрит (например, 54s). Когда BTN делает ставку 15 против 19 (большой размер), его диапазон становится поляризованным:

• Промывания (X♥Y♥)
• Некоторые 54-е
• Иногда сильный топор с сердцем
• Блеф с блокатором сердца

Ваше решение здесь уже спорное, но оправданное. Вы победили Акса, не имея ни одной карты в руке, и не смогли блефовать.

Река: 9♠​

Эта карта мало что дополняет, кроме 54, которая уже была. Когда он делает ставку на ривере после такого сильного размера ставки на терне, ключевой вопрос:

Он что, здесь использует тройной топор?

В NL2 важны тенденции численности игроков. Большинство игроков:

• Не стоит слишком блефовать.
• Не делайте слишком тонкую ставку.
• Делайте крупные ставки, в основном, с сильными руками.

Если он типичный игрок на микролимитах, то его линия ставок, похоже, в значительной степени ориентирована на:

• Смывы
• Полные залы (33, иногда формата А3)

На этом уровне очень немногие игроки блефуют тройным блефом после крупной ставки на терне, когда выпадает флеш.

Поэтому, вероятно, складка не слишком тугая по сравнению с бассейном.

---

Настоящая проблема​

Вы сказали:


This is not analysis; this is intuition without structure. What you need is the following:

• Assign a range on the flop
• Narrowing at the turn
• The value of counting against bluffing on the river

If high-value combinations clearly dominate → fold is the right choice.
If the bluff is realistic → call.

---

Final Verdict​

Against an unknown NL2 BTN player with this ball size, a folded river game with AQ (without a core) is likely to look solid and disciplined , not weak.

You're not confused — you think. And that's a good thing.

If you'd like, let me know your river bet size and result so we can discuss how to calculate combinations in more detail.

Click to expand...

Guess CC's in-built translator was overwhelmed with the translation here 😂

Station_Master said:

'Under repping' your hand is not necessarily a bad thing. Also known as protecting your checking range, if we dont check strong hands on the flop sometimes then we can be bluffed of our range later in the hand.

Click to expand...

Also known as pot control or stack protection, since we typically dont want to play for our entire stack with this hand in a multiway pot. At least not in a 100BB cash game.

Station_Master said:

'Under repping' your hand is not necessarily a bad thing. Also known as protecting your checking range, if we dont check strong hands on the flop sometimes then we can be bluffed of our range later in the hand.

As for this hand i think its probably better to xraise flop, as played i agree with folding river, possibly.even folding turn given its so hard to find

Click to expand...

In this case it was. Don't slow play top pair unless you know the player behind is squeeze happy. Maybe they have junk and maybe they'll just fold, but you'll get plenty value from weaker pairs to make up for it. You might even get three streets of value from Ax.

fundiver199 said:

Also known as pot control or stack protection, since we typically dont want to play for our entire stack with this hand in a multiway pot. At least not in a 100BB cash game.

Click to expand...

This is not a pot control situation. Until villain gives you a reason to slow down this is BET, BET, BET.
I would happily get it in with TPQK, 100BB is not deep.

Four Dogs said:

In this case it was. Don't slow play top pair unless you know the player behind is squeeze happy. Maybe they have junk and maybe they'll just fold, but you'll get plenty value from weaker pairs to make up for it. You might even get three streets of value from Ax.

Click to expand...

We cant be too results orientated, in this case the flush got there on the turn.

As i said i would xraise this hand as played, so not exactly a slowplay. But if it checks through thats also fine and we play turns

fundiver199 said:

Also known as pot control or stack protection, since we typically dont want to play for our entire stack with this hand in a multiway pot. At least not in a 100BB cash game.

Click to expand...

Agreed, especially with the BB is in the hand.

Once he folds we can certainly xraise flop as we only lose to 2 combos on the flop unless BU is very nitty pre (and he bet less than half pot). Also our equity is not that great versus a flush draw so checking flop is good play imo, especially as we have lots of other hands that want to check in this spot and dont want to be totally face up