When 3 bet with these pocket pairs do you ever 4 bet to keep your range uncapped. See lots of players online 4 bet all in with JJ and 1010. Personally will 4 bet blinds with these hands. Been calling 3 bets with these. Feel that I’m giving away my hand by calling. I do also call with AA KK to keep opponents guessing....Tboughts?
Bluffs to balance with.
Thank you for posting.
This article is very good and covers all the points I would have suggested.
https://upswingpoker.com/4-bet-5-bet-preflop-strategy/
Hope this helps
🙂🙂🙂
vax1op369 said:
Thank you for posting.
This article is very good and covers all the points I would have suggested.
https://upswingpoker.com/4-bet-5-bet-preflop-strategy/
Hope this helps
🙂🙂🙂
AX
Thanks for responding.
The AX dilemma is two fold:
1 It is improperly used versus the wrong villains. You do not include it in your bluff range versus villains who have a range of A8+ in HU 3 bet pots. It is of course a fold to all 4 bets.
Properly ranging a villain preflop is the key to adding this hand to a bluff range.
2 Players treat the AX as value not bluff after the flop. So if they 3 bet the A8 as a bluff and get called and then flop the Ace they improperly believe they should now be playing it as a standard value hand. The villain range is a 3 bet calling range with no weak Aces.
It was a bluff- we did not want to get called by strong hands. Switching to extracting value from it when our villains may have a better ACE is unwise. It becomes a way ahead way behind situation.
As it was a bluff we need to employ board texture reads and villain tendencies to continue post flop with our bluff. Which means we know our villains are never folding an AK AQs dependent on STPR (stack to pot ratio)
We also need to use proper bet sizing. We want to risk the least we can on our post flop bets to get to showdown when we flop the Ace.
Just some thoughts.
Hope this helps
🙂🙂
vax1op369 said:
Thanks for responding.
The AX dilemma is two fold:
1 It is improperly used versus the wrong villains. You do not include it in your bluff range versus villains who have a range of A8+ in HU 3 bet pots. It is of course a fold to all 4 bets.
Properly ranging a villain preflop is the key to adding this hand to a bluff range.
2 Players treat the AX as value not bluff after the flop. So if they 3 bet the A8 as a bluff and get called and then flop the Ace they improperly believe they should now be playing it as a standard value hand. The villain range is a 3 bet calling range with no weak Aces.
It was a bluff- we did not want to get called by strong hands. Switching to extracting value from it when our villains may have a better ACE is unwise. It becomes a way ahead way behind situation.
As it was a bluff we need to employ board texture reads and villain tendencies to continue post flop with our bluff. Which means we know our villains are never folding an AK AQs dependent on STPR (stack to pot ratio)
We also need to use proper bet sizing. We want to risk the least we can on our post flop bets to get to showdown when we flop the Ace.
Just some thoughts.
Hope this helps
🙂🙂
I dont really understand the 4bet Jam with hands like TT JJ because you allow AK to fold and you dont allow worse to come over the top. People seem to be doing it quite alot with AK as well and again it just puzzles me slightly. I mean if you can get AK to fold not getting the right price on a call perhaps it makes 4bet jamming TT JJ a good idea.It's certainly more prevelant than it used to be though from what i can remember anyway.
Right Price
Thank you for posting.
You always want a villain to call when they are not getting the right price in a cash game. ICM in tournaments changes that.
It is not uncommon for villains to improperly apply strategies. The article I listed talked about Ike 5 bet shoving Ah5h and how it would be a good idea IF the button had enough folds.
Then just below that, stated the most important part. For 99% of games you should never do this. Most readers will forget the 99% do not do this and just remember but IKE who is great 5 bet shoved Ah5h
JJ 1010 4 bet shove is terrible vs strong or average players. You will always be called by 50%+ equity hands and you will fold out all hands with 45%- equity.
You need 65% weak calling station players who 3 bet wide ranges in your player pool for that to be profitable long term.
🙂🙂
Fvendal said:
Thank you for posting.
You always want a villain to call when they are not getting the right price in a cash game. ICM in tournaments changes that.
It is not uncommon for villains to improperly apply strategies. The article I listed talked about Ike 5 bet shoving Ah5h and how it would be a good idea IF the button had enough folds.
Then just below that, stated the most important part. For 99% of games you should never do this. Most readers will forget the 99% do not do this and just remember but IKE who is great 5 bet shoved Ah5h
JJ 1010 4 bet shove is terrible vs strong or average players. You will always be called by 50%+ equity hands and you will fold out all hands with 45%- equity.
You need 65% weak calling station players who 3 bet wide ranges in your player pool for that to be profitable long term.
🙂🙂
eetenor said:
Are you always calling AK os or SP all in a cash game? Is that standard. If I see 2 or 3 people already all in I’m folding. Feel that it is situation dependent...thoughts? Great post about A5 that dude got away with it 1 time...so fish think it’s normal
Standard Vs Optimal
Thank you for responding.
The term standard is used when you are playing many tables. You must standardize most of your actions because you do not have time to evaluate situations thoroughly.
For instance getting all-in with AK sub 100 BB was standard because you had no time to observe the table and know the villain. So if Villain has QQ You AK you take the coin flip and move on to your other 39 tables.
If you are not playing many tables you will want to look for optimal lines not standard lines.
Same AK this time vs a known Nit who only gets it in preflop with AA KK AK this time you fold. If your are note taking you can actually know this.
Vs multiple players all-in in a cash game SP would often need to make sets to win. A rule of thumb is to get 10-1 when you are set mining. Other mathies argue closer 20-1 This is not possible in an all-in situation.
AK off vs 3 players all-in. The difficulty is card distribution. Can we assume some pairs and some strong Aces or Kings in the hands of the villains. If AA is present 4% equity-KK 20% QQ 29%. If the ranges hold one Ace Q or King Q you get the odds to call 3 villains.
Vs 2 villains for instance Hero AKoff V1 QQ V2 AcJc equity hero 31%
So ranging villains (optimal) becomes the important factor. Can we exclude any Nits from a 3 or 4 way all-in.
Use the cardschat odds calculator to input different hand scenarios or buy flopzilla to get a better idea of how hands play vs ranges.
Hope this helps
🙂🙂
vax1op369 said:
Thank you for responding.
The term standard is used when you are playing many tables. You must standardize most of your actions because you do not have time to evaluate situations thoroughly.
For instance getting all-in with AK sub 100 BB was standard because you had no time to observe the table and know the villain. So if Villain has QQ You AK you take the coin flip and move on to your other 39 tables.
If you are not playing many tables you will want to look for optimal lines not standard lines.
Same AK this time vs a known Nit who only gets it in preflop with AA KK AK this time you fold. If your are note taking you can actually know this.
Vs multiple players all-in in a cash game SP would often need to make sets to win. A rule of thumb is to get 10-1 when you are set mining. Other mathies argue closer 20-1 This is not possible in an all-in situation.
AK off vs 3 players all-in. The difficulty is card distribution. Can we assume some pairs and some strong Aces or Kings in the hands of the villains. If AA is present 4% equity-KK 20% QQ 29%. If the ranges hold one Ace Q or King Q you get the odds to call 3 villains.
Vs 2 villains for instance Hero AKoff V1 QQ V2 AcJc equity hero 31%
So ranging villains (optimal) becomes the important factor. Can we exclude any Nits from a 3 or 4 way all-in.
Use the cardschat odds calculator to input different hand scenarios or buy flopzilla to get a better idea of how hands play vs ranges.
Hope this helps
🙂🙂
vax1op369 said:
Unless villain is an aggressive fish AK is a pretty easy fold vs a 4bet shove for 100bb given standard open and 3bet sizes. A big plus when shoving AK vs a 4bet is your fold equity which you dont have vs a 4bet shove. And A5s can be used in a balanced 5bet shoving range as a bluff which imo isn't needed in the micros.