Been a while since I posted a session stats. Cause it's been a pretty wild ride on the cash side at the beginning of this month. Then stopped putting a bit of volume & took a sort of a break.
Finally a session I can be ultra pleased about. Been a while since I played at party FF.
First time I ran good in both tables
That energy you get when you are the king of the hill is unexplainable. Obviously has to do with some ego issues but still feels good & the other players feel it as well.
Hope I bink todays party ticket to cash some more.
And I've been thinking to take things a bit lighter. My intention is to climb the ranks so no point in rushing/cashing out profits etc.
Keep on playing super relaxed while balancing my life.
Read 1/4 of John's book thoroughly & it feels like speaking to myself. Learning much from it.
Quite the mistake I made by postponing it skipping here n there.
Finally a session I can be ultra pleased about. Been a while since I played at party FF.
First time I ran good in both tables
That energy you get when you are the king of the hill is unexplainable. Obviously has to do with some ego issues but still feels good & the other players feel it as well.
Hope I bink todays party ticket to cash some more.
And I've been thinking to take things a bit lighter. My intention is to climb the ranks so no point in rushing/cashing out profits etc.
Keep on playing super relaxed while balancing my life.
Read 1/4 of John's book thoroughly & it feels like speaking to myself. Learning much from it.
Quite the mistake I made by postponing it skipping here n there.
Today
This isn't accurate cause some of yesterdays stats are included for whatever reason.
Around $.17 of profit. I was high sailing in the $20+ but then a short stack rivered a flush
vs me & it all went down after that. Should've stopped playing there and still it's boiling inside of me.
My flop bet was too small. But I can't understand how he floated that.
Anyway enough cash for today. Made some decent progress. Got a tourney starting around 3 hours from now.
Also was gunning for the $109 ticket yesterday & sadly fell short & knocker out at 5th BvB (AKo<A7o).
I need to work on my bluff raises cause apparently they aren't working and somehow the V always have the goods.
Lost half+ stack two times in the game which crippled me at the FT.
here's the last one
AJ,A3 makes sense. Other than that almost all are due to being a station on flop or J bluffs.
This isn't accurate cause some of yesterdays stats are included for whatever reason.
Around $.17 of profit. I was high sailing in the $20+ but then a short stack rivered a flush
vs me & it all went down after that. Should've stopped playing there and still it's boiling inside of me.
My flop bet was too small. But I can't understand how he floated that.
partypoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 87.2 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (SB): 393.2 BB
BB: 45.8 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 33)
UTG: 105 BB (VPIP: 20.32, PFR: 16.60, 3Bet Preflop: 4.04, Hands: 519)
MP: 80.8 BB (VPIP: 18.42, PFR: 13.16, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
CO: 238.2 BB (VPIP: 26.42, PFR: 16.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 54)
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Js Ad
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB
Flop : (6 BB, 2 players) 2c Jd 2h
Hero bets 3.6 BB, BB calls 3.6 BB
Turn : (13.2 BB, 2 players) 6c
Hero bets 7 BB, BB calls 7 BB
River : (27.2 BB, 2 players) Kc
Hero bets 14.8 BB, BB raises to 32.2 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 17.4 BB
Hero shows Js Ad (Two Pair, Jacks and Twos)
(Pre 58%, Flop 80%, Turn 75%)
BB shows Tc Qc (Flush, King High)
(Pre 42%, Flop 20%, Turn 25%)
BB wins 87.2 BB
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 87.2 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (SB): 393.2 BB
BB: 45.8 BB (VPIP: 18.75, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 7.14, Hands: 33)
UTG: 105 BB (VPIP: 20.32, PFR: 16.60, 3Bet Preflop: 4.04, Hands: 519)
MP: 80.8 BB (VPIP: 18.42, PFR: 13.16, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
CO: 238.2 BB (VPIP: 26.42, PFR: 16.98, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 54)
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Js Ad
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB
Flop : (6 BB, 2 players) 2c Jd 2h
Hero bets 3.6 BB, BB calls 3.6 BB
Turn : (13.2 BB, 2 players) 6c
Hero bets 7 BB, BB calls 7 BB
River : (27.2 BB, 2 players) Kc
Hero bets 14.8 BB, BB raises to 32.2 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 17.4 BB
Hero shows Js Ad (Two Pair, Jacks and Twos)
(Pre 58%, Flop 80%, Turn 75%)
BB shows Tc Qc (Flush, King High)
(Pre 42%, Flop 20%, Turn 25%)
BB wins 87.2 BB
Anyway enough cash for today. Made some decent progress. Got a tourney starting around 3 hours from now.
Also was gunning for the $109 ticket yesterday & sadly fell short & knocker out at 5th BvB (AKo<A7o).
I need to work on my bluff raises cause apparently they aren't working and somehow the V always have the goods.
Lost half+ stack two times in the game which crippled me at the FT.
here's the last one
AJ,A3 makes sense. Other than that almost all are due to being a station on flop or J bluffs.
partypoker - 800/1600 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BB: 18.03 BB (VPIP: 27.64, PFR: 16.93, 3Bet Preflop: 8.62, Hands: 203)
UTG: 5.53 BB (VPIP: 13.78, PFR: 6.58, 3Bet Preflop: 3.75, Hands: 254)
Hero (UTG+1): 26.77 BB
MP: 43.79 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 12.62, 3Bet Preflop: 6.76, Hands: 216)
CO: 20.68 BB (VPIP: 24.42, PFR: 14.46, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 87)
BTN: 35.19 BB (VPIP: 24.65, PFR: 11.43, 3Bet Preflop: 8.93, Hands: 142)
6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.6 BB) Hero has 9s 9c
fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, MP calls 2 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 1 BB
Flop : (6.6 BB, 3 players) Jd 3h 3c
BB checks, Hero checks, MP bets 3.3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8.5 BB, MP calls 5.2 BB
Turn : (23.6 BB, 2 players) Ad
Hero checks, MP bets 11.8 BB, fold
MP wins 35.4 BB
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BB: 18.03 BB (VPIP: 27.64, PFR: 16.93, 3Bet Preflop: 8.62, Hands: 203)
UTG: 5.53 BB (VPIP: 13.78, PFR: 6.58, 3Bet Preflop: 3.75, Hands: 254)
Hero (UTG+1): 26.77 BB
MP: 43.79 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 12.62, 3Bet Preflop: 6.76, Hands: 216)
CO: 20.68 BB (VPIP: 24.42, PFR: 14.46, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 87)
BTN: 35.19 BB (VPIP: 24.65, PFR: 11.43, 3Bet Preflop: 8.93, Hands: 142)
6 players post ante of 0.1 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.6 BB) Hero has 9s 9c
fold, Hero raises to 2 BB, MP calls 2 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 1 BB
Flop : (6.6 BB, 3 players) Jd 3h 3c
BB checks, Hero checks, MP bets 3.3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 8.5 BB, MP calls 5.2 BB
Turn : (23.6 BB, 2 players) Ad
Hero checks, MP bets 11.8 BB, fold
MP wins 35.4 BB
GL today in Powerfest Alucard- it was nice finally getting to sit with you at a table for a bit on the freeroll yesterday. Too bad you had to jam JJ into my AQ like that...but that's how it goes. Congrats on the 5th - go get em tonight!
As for the hand above, you don't think TT-44 is in their range? Possibly even slow playing QQ?
As for the hand above, you don't think TT-44 is in their range? Possibly even slow playing QQ?
CRStals said:
Thanks! Hope to turn it around.
Yeah yesterday was fun. Cannot fold jacks there. Could've gone the other way as well.
Talking about 99?
I don't think it's slowplaying tbh. That guy was aggressive Aggressive in a way some fish with ace rags.
Could be some pocket but then why would they continue after the check raise? Makes no sense unless they cannot fold & considering I'm bluffing.
I had a note on him saying overvaluing middle pair. So a bit of a station as well.
So far how my stake has been going
partypoker - 2000/4000 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
MP: 28.8 BB (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
CO: 44.02 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
BTN: 13.03 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (SB): 27.68 BB
BB: 72.68 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 30.77, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 13)
UTG: 73.83 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has Ks As
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB
Flop : (6.75 BB, 2 players) Js Kh 7s
Hero checks, BB bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, BB raises to 69.56 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 14.05 BB and is all-in
Turn : (55.85 BB, 2 players) Ah
River : (55.85 BB, 2 players) Qh
Hero shows Ks As (Two Pair, Aces and Kings)
(Pre 75%, Flop 91%, Turn 93%)
BB shows Th Kd (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 25%, Flop 9%, Turn 7%)
BB wins 45.01 BB
BB wins 55.85 BB
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
MP: 28.8 BB (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
CO: 44.02 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
BTN: 13.03 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
Hero (SB): 27.68 BB
BB: 72.68 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 30.77, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 13)
UTG: 73.83 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 13)
6 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.25 BB) Hero has Ks As
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB
Flop : (6.75 BB, 2 players) Js Kh 7s
Hero checks, BB bets 4 BB, Hero raises to 10.5 BB, BB raises to 69.56 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 14.05 BB and is all-in
Turn : (55.85 BB, 2 players) Ah
River : (55.85 BB, 2 players) Qh
Hero shows Ks As (Two Pair, Aces and Kings)
(Pre 75%, Flop 91%, Turn 93%)
BB shows Th Kd (Straight, Ace High)
(Pre 25%, Flop 9%, Turn 7%)
BB wins 45.01 BB
BB wins 55.85 BB
Analysis? check back river?? overbet/shove turn??
PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 143.8 BB (VPIP: 24.32, PFR: 19.28, 3Bet Preflop: 7.95, Hands: 714)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 13.16, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
BB: 96.2 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG: 79.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
Hero (MP): 104 BB
CO: 114 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 18.42, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 39)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Qd Ah
UTG raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB
Flop : (19.4 BB, 2 players) 5c 4c Qh
UTG bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, UTG calls 11 BB
Turn : (43.4 BB, 2 players) Jh
UTG checks, Hero bets 30 BB, UTG calls 30 BB
River : (103.4 BB, 2 players) 9s
UTG checks,
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 143.8 BB (VPIP: 24.32, PFR: 19.28, 3Bet Preflop: 7.95, Hands: 714)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 13.16, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
BB: 96.2 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
UTG: 79.4 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
Hero (MP): 104 BB
CO: 114 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 18.42, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 39)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Qd Ah
UTG raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB
Flop : (19.4 BB, 2 players) 5c 4c Qh
UTG bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, UTG calls 11 BB
Turn : (43.4 BB, 2 players) Jh
UTG checks, Hero bets 30 BB, UTG calls 30 BB
River : (103.4 BB, 2 players) 9s
UTG checks,
****ed up sessions
PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 94 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: 76.2 BB (VPIP: 23.00, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.30, Hands: 102)
BB: 98.6 BB
UTG: 140.6 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 8.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
Hero (MP): 109.4 BB
CO: 124.4 BB (VPIP: 15.22, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 47)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Ac Ah
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 8 BB, Hero raises to 35 BB, fold, BB calls 26 BB
Flop : (79.4 BB, 2 players) Kd Jh 6d
BB bets 63.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 63.6 BB
Turn : (206.6 BB, 2 players) Jd
River : (206.6 BB, 2 players) Td
BB shows Qd As (Flush, King High)
(Pre 8%, Flop 20%, Turn 25%)
Hero shows Ac Ah (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks)
(Pre 92%, Flop 80%, Turn 75%)
BB wins 198 BB
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 94 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: 76.2 BB (VPIP: 23.00, PFR: 12.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.30, Hands: 102)
BB: 98.6 BB
UTG: 140.6 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 8.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
Hero (MP): 109.4 BB
CO: 124.4 BB (VPIP: 15.22, PFR: 13.04, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 47)
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Ac Ah
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 8 BB, Hero raises to 35 BB, fold, BB calls 26 BB
Flop : (79.4 BB, 2 players) Kd Jh 6d
BB bets 63.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 63.6 BB
Turn : (206.6 BB, 2 players) Jd
River : (206.6 BB, 2 players) Td
BB shows Qd As (Flush, King High)
(Pre 8%, Flop 20%, Turn 25%)
Hero shows Ac Ah (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks)
(Pre 92%, Flop 80%, Turn 75%)
BB wins 198 BB
Alucard said:
Looks standard. He has 30bb behind, so he will call Qx, Jx on the river. It’s true though that villain’s hand is annoyingly better than what hero has way more often than one would believe.
I too would not most likely to 3bet, but given hero did the hand plays somewhat naturally like this.
Last edited:
Alucard said:
Personally tptk is not normally a 3 streets of value hand for me in this scenario. I would be checking behind on one of the streets here.
As played he's unknown so 3betting an unknown utg opening range can lead to some awkward spots especially if they decide to flat with a premium.
Here we are only realistically behind KK and maybe the odd AA but in my experience they are out there.
As played I think I check behind. His hand smells like a busted high clubs hand where he has been trying to see flop and turn as cheap as he can. But he may also just be fancy playing KK.
On balance I think I prefer the check behind on the end but I wouldn't be critical of a thin value bet. He will have some Qx hands here but with no history it's difficult to say.
So I put him al in on the river. Pretty aggressive on my part. Considering the range I'm targeting.He snap called.
Guess what he had.?
K10 of clubs. What a strange world!He was chasing a flush & got paid by an open ender
3 buy ins lost today at zoom. I'm stopping playing zoom for good at least till I get some coaching. Going back to 2NL at stars & will go to 5NL after sometime.
At party I'll continue playing 5NL ff cause it has been paying me good.
Guess what he had.?
K10 of clubs. What a strange world!He was chasing a flush & got paid by an open ender
3 buy ins lost today at zoom. I'm stopping playing zoom for good at least till I get some coaching. Going back to 2NL at stars & will go to 5NL after sometime.
At party I'll continue playing 5NL ff cause it has been paying me good.
Also I read some of Doug's old 2+2 threads. The guy was a beast!
One day he did this challenge with some people with live updates on the thread where he won 20+ buyins at 25NL. In oneday!!!
Sadly the times have changed but I have keep trying & climbing.
One day he did this challenge with some people with live updates on the thread where he won 20+ buyins at 25NL. In oneday!!!
Sadly the times have changed but I have keep trying & climbing.
Alucard said:
Yeah high clubs were up there on my list. But if they whiff as missed draws they don't pay anything on the end unless they back into something else.
I don't like the shove, the only hand that might call that we beat is QK.
We are losing to the other likely Qx out there QJ which is of course 2 pair. We will chop as well.
There is just too much chance we are beat here. As Brave suggests they are often stronger than you think here....Hence my suggestion to err on a check behind.
Personally I'd never even consider a shove here. Its a big mistake to shove and get called by better here.
Your aggro nature getting the better of you again.
Again part of this comes back to the fact that it's fast poker and the speed of the game leads to fast decisions which dont get properly thought through.
In the cold light it's never a shove imho.
Figaroo2 said:
This is why I considered overbet/ jamming on turn.
First of all he is a fish with a 80BB stack. So the immediate thought that goes through my mind is to get the maximum out of him if I hit the flop good.
But then on turn I felt overbetting might be better but changed my mind due to V being a fish.
I hate the shove as well and only realized it after I did, where I considered his calling range so far & what hands I'm trying to get value from.
variance hates me today
partypoker - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 96.2 BB (VPIP: 30.30, PFR: 24.24, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 33)
Hero (SB): 151.4 BB
BB: 207.8 BB (VPIP: 23.25, PFR: 18.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.44, Hands: 2,985)
UTG: 99.4 BB (VPIP: 23.96, PFR: 7.29, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 97)
MP: 111 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
CO: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 18.32, PFR: 16.52, 3Bet Preflop: 5.93, Hands: 346)
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8c 8d
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 10.8 BB, fold, BTN calls 7.8 BB
Flop : (22.6 BB, 2 players) 8s 2d Ks
Hero bets 10 BB, BTN calls 10 BB
Turn : (42.6 BB, 2 players) Kd
Hero checks, BTN checks
River : (42.6 BB, 2 players) Js
Hero bets 18 BB, BTN raises to 75.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 57.4 BB
Hero shows 8c 8d (Full House, Eights full of Kings)
(Pre 19%, Flop 91%, Turn 91%)
BTN shows Jc Jh (Full House, Jacks full of Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 9%, Turn 9%)
BTN wins 183.8 BB
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 96.2 BB (VPIP: 30.30, PFR: 24.24, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 33)
Hero (SB): 151.4 BB
BB: 207.8 BB (VPIP: 23.25, PFR: 18.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.44, Hands: 2,985)
UTG: 99.4 BB (VPIP: 23.96, PFR: 7.29, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 97)
MP: 111 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
CO: 101.8 BB (VPIP: 18.32, PFR: 16.52, 3Bet Preflop: 5.93, Hands: 346)
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 8c 8d
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 10.8 BB, fold, BTN calls 7.8 BB
Flop : (22.6 BB, 2 players) 8s 2d Ks
Hero bets 10 BB, BTN calls 10 BB
Turn : (42.6 BB, 2 players) Kd
Hero checks, BTN checks
River : (42.6 BB, 2 players) Js
Hero bets 18 BB, BTN raises to 75.4 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 57.4 BB
Hero shows 8c 8d (Full House, Eights full of Kings)
(Pre 19%, Flop 91%, Turn 91%)
BTN shows Jc Jh (Full House, Jacks full of Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 9%, Turn 9%)
BTN wins 183.8 BB