Calling an all in preflop?

Hi everyone. NLHE 6 Max ZOOM cash game on PokerStars.
I was told to never fold QQ/KK preflop in a 6 Max cash game.
Obviously calling an all in preflop with QQ/KK at 150BB's deep is an easy call but what about more than 150BB's?
I want to know if it's worth calling an all in preflop with QQ/KK if I'm more than 200BB's deep and my opponent is also more than 200BB's deep?
What is the maximum number of BB's to call an all in preflop with QQ/KK?

I've always like the old adage, "never go broke with a Queen in your hand pre-flop". This specifically refers to AQ and QQ. With both hands I can and have found folds pre. Sometimes I was right and some I have been wrong. As for KK, I'm always committing no matter what. If you have AA, congrats. Unless its live and I can tell by the opponents actions that he has aces, I'm just never folding KK pre to any all in. Never. QQ is an easy fold once you have done it a few times. It's just one hand, wait for a softer spot.

I agree, I will call every time with KK but not always with QQ.

For me your playing ZOOM that's a style that promotes folding hands until you get a hand you want to play so it's going to be more of a gamble then say a 6 player cash table where you've watched the other play styles for an hour. Your with a new group and a new handi personally don't like ZOOM it feels like more gambling and less poker to me!

I completely agree, but I will almost always call with KK ,but not always QQ

in my opoinion,just dont do that in Early tourney

Kings call always. Queens fold to 4bet (except hyperaggressive villain), or call to 4bet in really deep stacks. Don't like to all-in QQ preflop anyway.

So with KK stack sizes don't matter and I should always call an all in preflop?

With QQ should I always fold to an all in preflop?

With QQ when there is a raise, re-raise and a re-re-raise preflop is that called a 4 bet and should I always fold?

Say I call a 4 bet preflop with QQ. Won't I end up stacking off to KK/AA on the flop anyways? Is it best to fold QQ preflop when facing a 4 bet?

Often what happens is that you feel is not even with the strongest hand, you need to look

I hope these aren't bad questions. When I think of QQ and KK I think of how much money I'm willing to spend on that hand preflop. I think of stack sizes, my stack size and my opponents stack size.

Which does QQ go under for calling an all in preflop?
a) Small: 40 BB's or less.
b) Medium: 41-90 BB's.
c) Big: 91 BB's or more.
d) Deep: 200 BB's or more.

Which does KK go under for calling an all in preflop?
a) Small: 40 BB's or less.
b) Medium: 41-90 BB's.
c) Big: 91 BB's or more.
d) Deep: 200 BB's or more.

"Queens never wins" but about Kings, there is only one hand defeating them (AA) because even though you're playing vs Ax it's not a coinflip In my opinion pocket of kings - it's call always anyway, pocket of queens - addicted to position and play of your enemies at board.

PokerWeatherman said:

I've always like the old adage, "never go broke with a Queen in your hand pre-flop". This specifically refers to AQ and QQ. With both hands I can and have found folds pre. Sometimes I was right and some I have been wrong. As for KK, I'm always committing no matter what. If you have AA, congrats. Unless its live and I can tell by the opponents actions that he has aces, I'm just never folding KK pre to any all in. Never. QQ is an easy fold once you have done it a few times. It's just one hand, wait for a softer spot.

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I agree to that, i also found folds there sometimes right sometimes horribly wrong

Maybe I'm overplaying QQ preflop. It's almost a coin flip with AK and a huge underdog to KK/AA.
This is a hand I just played. It was on my other play money account so no big deal but this is just an example of QQ all in preflop deep stacked. I was right about them not having KK/AA but I still lost. Me and villain were just over 250BB's deep.

PokerStars Zoom Hand #165415470247: Hold'em No Limit (1000/2000) - 2017/01/30 13:55:12 ET
Table 'NLHE 1,000/2,000 6 Max' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Hero (568620 in chips)
Seat 2: manuel 2014r (177590 in chips)
Seat 3: nala101023 (532560 in chips)
Seat 4: visontino (321700 in chips)
Seat 5: segura29 (92800 in chips)
Seat 6: pacobadajoz (201680 in chips)
manuel 2014r: posts small blind 1000
nala101023: posts big blind 2000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Qh Qd]
visontino: folds
segura29: folds
pacobadajoz: folds
Hero: raises 4000 to 6000
manuel 2014r: folds
nala101023: raises 124000 to 130000
Hero: raises 438620 to 568620 and is all-in
nala101023: calls 402560 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (36060) returned to Hero
*** FLOP *** [2c 7s 9d]
*** TURN *** [2c 7s 9d] 8♣
*** RIVER *** [2c 7s 9d 8c] K♣
*** SHOW DOWN ***
nala101023: shows [Kh Ah] (a pair of Kings)
Hero: shows [Qh Qd] (a pair of Queens)
nala101023 collected 1018140 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1066120 | Rake 47980
Board [2c 7s 9d 8c Kc]
Seat 1: Hero (button) showed [Qh Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: manuel 2014r (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: nala101023 (big blind) showed [Kh Ah] and won (1018140) with a pair of Kings
Seat 4: visontino folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: segura29 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: pacobadajoz folded before Flop (didn't bet)

hi

I also prefer to K K shoved than QQ
when imam malko chipove chakam to enter only A beznachenie with kakvo again I go to all

Click400 said:

Hola a todos,

Personalmente en mesa de Zoom solo voy a QQ all-in Pre-Flop si me encuentro con menos de 50BB, en cuanto a KK estoy de acuerdo con que se deben pagar ser máximo 150BB... Un jugador que tenga una cantidad superior a esto casi siempre te esta hablando con AA en mano.

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Gracias.

Never fold K's before of flop for me! If less than 40 BB ,I will call with Q's ,40 BB + need think about it ! AK vs Q's also not underdog ....if that day running good maybe try to call it !

I never fold KK preflop, go all in with QQ preflop is more complicated

Normally open Ace or Kings 25% of the time on the flop

PokerWeatherman said:

As for KK, I'm always committing no matter what. If you have AA, congrats. Unless its live and I can tell by the opponents actions that he has aces, I'm just never folding KK pre to any all in. Never. QQ is an easy fold once you have done it a few times. It's just one hand, wait for a softer spot.

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See what I posted below, I think, especially in Zoom 6-max, you can find a fold with KK. I would say I've been correct more often than not when seeing a shove pre-flop.

MikeRuiger said:

For me your playing ZOOM that's a style that promotes folding hands until you get a hand you want to play so it's going to be more of a gamble then say a 6 player cash table where you've watched the other play styles for an hour. Your with a new group and a new handi personally don't like ZOOM it feels like more gambling and less poker to me!

Click to expand...

I was playing 10NL Zoom (6-handed) and I had KK in the BB. There was a raise in the cutoff (standard 3x), so far so good, then the button 3bet shoved 120 bb's. I decided to fold because REALLY what is the villain doing this with? I watched the hand play out and sure enough, villain had Aces but lost when J7 (original raiser who called the shove) rivered trip Jacks.

I think the key with Zoom is being able to win the smaller pots when you haven't connected with the board, and neither has your opponent, and being able to push them off a hand. There are so many different board dynamics that you can use to your advantage. I think there's some trial and error here that can be done, but these, not the big hands, are the key to whether or not you're going to make a profit, even a small one, playing this format.

I think you have to punctuate this fact :
The limits that you are playing. In many cases it´s OK to call a all-in with QQ, but when you´re facing the NL5 limits, or NL10, I don´t think it´s a good idea to call a all-in pre-flop Deep to 150BB, many players will shove AK (45%-55%) , KK and for sure, AA. I don´t see the possibility of folding KK pre-flop, just think about that, do you know how many combinations with aces you can have? You can have 6 combinations , and will receive Aces 1 every 221 hands!

Very interesting questioning ... but I do not feel comfortable dropping the KK pre flop, even 150 bbs deep.

Shumkoolie said:

I think the key with Zoom is being able to win the smaller pots when you haven't connected with the board, and neither has your opponent, and being able to push them off a hand. There are so many different board dynamics that you can use to your advantage. I think there's some trial and error here that can be done, but these, not the big hands, are the key to whether or not you're going to make a profit, even a small one, playing this format.

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This is true I think you have to play this type of poker with the strength to lay down a good hand in some cases!

kenzohim said:

Never fold K's before of flop for me! If less than 40 BB ,I will call with Q's ,40 BB + need think about it ! AK vs Q's also not underdog ....if that day running good maybe try to call it !

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PKPurple said:

I never fold KK preflop, go all in with QQ preflop is more complicated

Normally open Ace or Kings 25% of the time on the flop

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skavenger said:

Very interesting questioning ... but I do not feel comfortable dropping the KK pre flop, even 150 bbs deep.

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I agree with this. I'm never folding KK preflop, especially for 150BB's.

How deep stacked would you have to be to even consider folding KK preflop in a 6 max zoom cash game, 300BB's more or less?

Will opponents go all in for 300BB's with anything less than KK?

Base on u want gamble or not u hold Q's vs AK 55% v 45% almost a coinflop ,see who is lucky
,I don't play by this way if that deep

thomasguy3419 said:

I agree with this. I'm never folding KK preflop, especially for 150BB's.

How deep stacked would you have to be to even consider folding KK preflop in a 6 max zoom cash game, 300BB's more or less?

Will opponents go all in for 300BB's with anything less than KK?

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If I hold Q's I raise ,get raise ,maybe I will 3 bet or just flat.. so max I 3 bet n get 4 bet →flop rainbow no face cards n ace I will bet again/check raise

I think is better way to play your hand if stakes are deep. Pre flop jam I only on A's n K's in this case ........