hey, i'm 9k. #3

+7bi for the day so far, gonna take a break and play some more tonight.

got 3 for you guys:

PokerStars - €0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): €50.00
BB: €47.50 (VPIP: 72.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, hands: 40)
UTG: €39.73 (VPIP: 38.64, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 44)
MP: €57.87 (VPIP: 18.11, PFR: 15.75, 3Bet Preflop: 13.04, Hands: 127)
CO: €50.00 (VPIP: 23.23, PFR: 18.42, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 635)
BTN: €50.00 (VPIP: 27.75, PFR: 23.92, 3Bet Preflop: 8.82, Hands: 214)

Hero posts SB €0.25, BB posts BB €0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.75) Hero has T:diamond: T:club:

fold, fold, CO raises to €1.50, BTN calls €1.50, Hero raises to €6.00, BB calls €5.50, CO calls €4.50, BTN calls €4.50

Flop: (€24.00, 4 players) 2:spade: 5:spade: 6:spade:
Hero?

misclick pre, meant to make it a bit bigger.. sizing aside, turn play?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $51.50 (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 6)
UTG: $20.00 (VPIP: 22.73, PFR: 21.82, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 114)
CO: $61.66 (VPIP: 24.02, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 10.61, Hands: 205)
BTN: $54.75 (VPIP: 20.65, PFR: 14.13, 3Bet Preflop: 4.48, Hands: 187)
Hero (SB): $50.00

Hero posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has K:diamond: K:heart:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $2.50, Hero raises to $6.50, BB calls $4.00

Flop: ($13.00, 2 players) 5:spade: Q:club: 2:club:
Hero bets $9.00, BB calls $9.00

Turn: ($31.00, 2 players) A:club:
Hero?

fire river here? its thin but I think his whole range bar Qx folds.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $60.15 (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 21.79, 3Bet Preflop: 6.35, Hands: 164)
SB: $50.00 (VPIP: 18.94, PFR: 14.39, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 134)
Hero (BB): $50.00
CO: $50.00 (VPIP: 19.35, PFR: 12.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)

SB posts SB $0.25, Hero posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 8:spade: 6:spade:

fold, BTN raises to $1.25, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, BTN calls $2.75

Flop: ($8.25, 2 players) 9:spade: 7:diamond: Q:club:
Hero bets $4.50, BTN calls $4.50

Turn: ($17.25, 2 players) Q:heart:
Hero bets $9.00, BTN calls $9.00

River: ($35.25, 2 players) A:spade:
Hero?

1. I think 6 is fine pf tbh. Then maybe 15 otf and ship non A or spade turn?
2. . Id check turn and expect it to check through, then c/c river. I think you get way more action from bluffs than you would from thin val
3. Flop and turn fine, c/f river

I think there is a lot of merit in jamming the river.

you have him mostly on JJ/TT then?

If you're not gonna bluff shove that river turn should probably be a bit bigger.

Not sure best line with 86s, i probably bet flop a little bigger and turn bigger then pussy out on river. Why do people think river is a good bluff? I think its maybe close but he can have a good 18 combos of Qx so im not sure. Turn bet i make too but our fold equity is probably atrocious so i wonder if the turn bet is even +EV if we don't have a really profitable river shove which we never really do, maybe this line is bad and we need to think of another??

If you want a better response from us, and if it is possible, you need to show us your numbers, as villain would see them at the time of the hand.

So for instance, we see the villain in that 86s hand having (VPIP: 28.21, PFR: 21.79, 3Bet Preflop: 6.35, Hands: 164), which suggests to me that he has not gotten out of line for those 164 hands and I would tend to think he actually has something while tagging along. However, if he sees nit stats from you, you might be able to steal the river from him, whereas if he sees you as overt and overly loose, there is nothing you can do to steal that pot, and a force fold would be a preferred option to him checking you down and actually seeing your hand.

I'll guess that most of the subscribers to this thread have the mental image that you are overt and overly loose. Some who have actually sweated you or played with you might know otherwise, but as a general read on you, that would be my view.

So what are you numbers ?

And I ask because you tend to dis your villains and their numbers often enough that spew seems overly common. IMHO, you have to assume they have numbers on you, and you have not shown me that you accept that they have numbers on you. Sort of a 'Damn the torpedoes, Full steam ahead!' attitude that seems to be beyond a dynamic and varied approach others have suggested.

BTW, if you do anything on the river in that 86s hand, you deserve what you get.

DJ, I will confirm that 9k is a nit and not a spew monkey.

Secondly, I do agree that perceived image of us is important in a lot of situations granted at 50nl I can argue that it isnt used to full effect.

Also with that in mind, why is shoving bad? I think its pretty close between shove and c/f here cause we set up our stack size perfectly for a river shove.

I assume you are suggesting we c/f so I just want to know why and what the logic is.

also

"Sort of a 'Damn the torpedoes, Full steam ahead!' attitude that seems to be beyond a dynamic and varied approach others have suggested."

I really do not get this line if you mind elaborating.

BTW, if you do anything on the river in that 86s hand, you deserve what you get.

This is my Gotcha line of the day. Parse it out, it is neither pro or con any action. If he shoves and gets the fold, far out, if he gets the call.....eh, at least he is true to his original intentions (where the debate probably really needs to be) If he force folds to prevent showing...fine... Whatever he does he deserves.

As for the damn the torpedoes line, do you understand the original usage of that line?

Mythology probably; American Civil War; and it refers to going up against impossible odds with an unrelenting, usually irrational belief that you will prevail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_the_torpedoes,_full_speed_ahead#Damn_the_torpedoes

what the **** is going on?! lets get some logic in here with actual maths please

How did this happen?

What is your 3bet stat out of the blinds against steals?? Imo just stop 3betting suited gappers so much >.<: 86s seems to be a favorite for some reason and I just don't understand it.

dj11 said:

This is my Gotcha line of the day

Click to expand...

Marginal said:

How did this happen?

Click to expand...

Lol.

Why 3-bet the 86s. You are going to end up OOP against a range that dominates you. Can't see that as profitable unless you are a postflop genius.

Its as good a hand as any to 3 bet light from the blinds when we know villain on the button has a high steal percentage and will fold a lot of hands to a 3 bet. Also we are never in terrible shape and when we do hit, our hand strength is disguised. Plus its 50nl, ppl will fold to a ton of c bets as well in 3 bet pots

86s is like the nut best bluff 3bet hand from the big blind (it would be bad from the sb though), i'm just not sure we should even barrel the turn (maybe its okay if we bet quite big :S) cause we arent folding Qx on the river and he only has 12 combos of JJ/TT, maybe a few T9s but i think a lot of regs wont even defend them.

Honestly can barely see a flop cbet being profitable here, I think we should perhaps just c-bet this hand and give up on a ton of turns unless it comes a K, A, spade or a straight obv. Yeh thats what im going with so far.

I thought that people weren't folding to as many Cbets at 50NL. Isn't it common to get floated a lot?

Seems that OOP you only really have aggression going for you if you want to win the pot. Like this scenario, your pretty much forced to triple barrel if you want to push him off his hand.

Isn't it better to merge your range from the blinds, unless you have a distinct advantage over your opponent?

Your just opening yourself up to being peeled a ton if your just c betting and giving up that often, especially when we do have straight outs. Also you have to bet the turn if you have any intention of taking the pot down on the river.

The Q changes nothing though. We don't want to be barreling in a spot where the texture is the exact same. If he has TT he should be feeling even better about his hand now that there are fewer Q's we can have.

Hes never calling this river with TT. Especially since we are triple barreling

Yeah but on the turn we are unaware if the river is going to be an ace.

Marginal said:

Your just opening yourself up to being peeled a ton if your just c betting and giving up that often, especially when we do have straight outs. Also you have to bet the turn if you have any intention of taking the pot down on the river.

Click to expand...

I don't get this, and i don't get where you said we should bet river because we set stacks up perfectly on turn, surely all that matters is the maths behind it cause thats all poker is really.

Like shoving river is only gonna be good if he folds 50% of the time, thats easy to work out in combos and i just dont think he folds 50% of them, so shoving when he only folds 40% of them might be our only chance of "taking the pot down" yet it might cost us like $5 in EV every time we do it (guessed that number up but you get the point)

Same logic on the turn, i agree its gonna be hard to win if we dont bet but as far as our range goes, we do get to continue on a lot of turn cards just this one is very poor for us and im struggling to see how a turn bet can be +EV here because i think people are snap calling JTs,JJ,TT when the board pairs hoping to get to showdown.

I guess im just giving him way more combos of hands that you are cause I'm not just putting him on JJ and TT

Marginal said:

I guess im just giving him way more combos of hands that you are cause I'm not just putting him on JJ and TT

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I can give him more combos but i think hes got a good 18 that crush us if we dont give him any flopped sets, maybe i should include JTs too and its still not good, but its getting close, my only problem is i think hes more likely to play Qx like this this exact way almost 100% yet i think a non zero % of the time he raises his gutshots on the flop. I think he folds stuff like KJs on the turn almost always, sometimes folding JTs too, folding AJ on the flop etc, what kind of range are you giving him for the river bet to be good?