hey, i'm 9k. #3

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 7, 2013

nits ITT.

acky100 · Apr 7, 2013

OMGITSOVER9K said:
nits ITT.

elaborate, people trying to help you here!

no one got anything useful to discuss about the hand?

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 7, 2013

I'm out ATM, just wanted to see peoples opinions..

I'll do a more detailed response later. But I think if we fire turns we fire some rivers, double barreling here isn't good enough.

Carry on.

AlwaysPlanAhe · Apr 7, 2013

Both ranges have Qx but his doesn't have nearly as many Ax as ours. He didn't 4bet so we can remove a lot of the PP's strong enough to call triple barrel and we've missed our draw so 8 high probably isn't going to be good. Type *FLEX* into the chatbox and shove river.

ScottishMatt · Apr 8, 2013

This might be a completely idiotic proposition here, so before you disregard it just let me know why so I don't make a similar mistake. But if we know double barreling isn't going to do the job why not check/raise turn?

Seems to me that if we are destined to shovel money in as a bluff we might as well extract value from his backdoor flush draw floats. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in thinking that every combo that would fold to a double barrel is going to bet/fold turn here. Unaware if we have as much fold equity as we do tripling on A/K rivers but even if we get folds some of the time this should be +EV right?

I suck though so there might be some advanced concepts at play here that I don't understand that make a check/raise completely redundant.

acky100 · Apr 8, 2013

AlwaysPlanAhe said:
Both ranges have Qx but his doesn't have nearly as many Ax as ours. He didn't 4bet so we can remove a lot of the PP's strong enough to call triple barrel and we've missed our draw so 8 high probably isn't going to be good. Type *FLEX* into the chatbox and shove river.

Ax seems pretty irrelevant? we aren't value shoving any Ax on the river so if anything us having more Ax only helps him

AlwaysPlanAhe · Apr 8, 2013

acky100 said:
Ax seems pretty irrelevant? we aren't value shoving any Ax on the river so if anything us having more Ax only helps him

Us having more Ax means villain's range is weaker v's ours compared to the turn. And sure I wouldn't be value shoving Ax here, more like breakeven shoving for balance.

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

ScottishMatt said:
I'm pretty sure I'm correct in thinking that every combo that would fold to a double barrel is going to bet/fold turn here.

then why take the option that costs more?

ScottishMatt · Apr 8, 2013

Because you win more money. If you don't bet the turn, he will. So you are taking a more expensive option but you will be winning a larger pot. Like I said I dunno how it works as a bluff vs TT/JJ. But you wouldn't need it to have as high a success rate vs TT/JJ as a triple barrel because you can't barrel the river 100% of the time.

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

but we lose a larger pot when we get called? if the spots high variance then keeping the pot as small as possible is obv the most +ev option.

+ when we x/j we look like draws imo

ScottishMatt · Apr 8, 2013

Hmm. Like you said earlier double barreling isn't good enough anyway, by choosing to bluff you will be committing yourself to more than one street. So assuming you will fire 18-20 OTR then you won't be losing that much more. What hands call the turn and fold the river if it isn't an A/K. I suck at odds, but you can only barrel like 20% of the time right? Seems like it is way too small a % so I'm assuming you will fire some non A/K rivers in which case you lose the extra 20 bucks because he ain't folding.

I dunno, seeing as you disagree I'm probably wrong. Just thought that if we commit ourselfs to bluffing we should be extracting from his bluffs at the same time.

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

its good some of the time, we still get folds from some of his range and pure floats/weak draws that beat us..

if we bet the turn we have some FE and we are semi-bluffing so we get there some of the time.

also by x/jing we polarise our range when we don't really need to? when we x/j we rep air/draws and Qx, which gives him more of an incentive to call as opposed to just barreling where we can rep a wider value range.

barreling more than 20% here..

A river doesn't change much, infact it gives us less value combos that fire 3 but imo villains at 50 aren't going to think that, they'll just fold because the A hit and its a 'scare card'.

duggs · Apr 8, 2013

hand 1, b/f smallish.
hand 2 i really dont know what to do, pretty tempted to vbet pretty small tho.
hand 3 its weird river seems kinda bad for us really, unless he assumes we barrel AK/AJ on turn and bet it for value on the river? otherwise is just removes 3 combos of AA and removes 6 combos of KK from our value range. and our value range is already pretty thin.

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

I need volume, but minor brag.

EV's gonna bite me in the arse sooner or later.. and red line isn't as bad as usual!

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

IMG code doesn't work.

Cafeman · Apr 8, 2013

Nice.

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

oh Caff, merci <3

Cafeman · Apr 8, 2013

De rien mon pote

DunningKruger · Apr 8, 2013

Acky has a few pretty good posts in here. Acky how come more people don't listen to you. You make some valid points regarding this hand (that's getting more attention than it probably merits... where's the love for hand 2). Anyway you want to triple here a fair bit but a better run out would be, well, better, lol, and wouldn't polarize you quite the way that this one does. It depends on your opponent ofc but many players here have trips or better a significant amount of time here taking this line in position, and I'd be interested to know what percentage of villain's range ppl feel is flatting twice and then folding.

OMGITSOVER9K said:
but we lose a larger pot when we get called? if the spots high variance then keeping the pot as small as possible is obv the most +ev option.

This isn't really accurate and you may want to rethink it.

OMGITSOVER9K said:
I need volume, but minor brag.

I had come in here to look for new giraffes and lo and behold, your timing is excellent. vn. I was going to say I fixed the code for you and put actual tree chewing giraffes into some spoiler tags but ofc cafeman went and ruined that opportunity for me. I'll have to settle that score with him someday.

Cafeman · Apr 8, 2013

DunningKruger said:
Acky has a few pretty good posts in here. Acky how come more people don't listen to you.

I ignore him on here as if he's fos... don't want everyone knowing he's giving away the farm

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

vs fish? guys calling OOP vs UTG opens with allsorts of bullshit in the BB so I dont care about pre..

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): $80.44
MP: $37.50 (VPIP: 20.80, PFR: 16.42, 3Bet Preflop: 6.19, Hands: 282)
CO: $50.75 (VPIP: 24.60, PFR: 17.46, 3Bet Preflop: 1.89, Hands: 126)
BTN: $70.45 (VPIP: 33.10, PFR: 21.38, 3Bet Preflop: 7.46, Hands: 148)
SB: $84.43 (VPIP: 19.84, PFR: 15.40, 3Bet Preflop: 5.92, Hands: 392)
BB: $95.80 (VPIP: 38.32, PFR: 21.03, 3Bet Preflop: 10.98, Hands: 219)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 6:club: A:club:

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, fold, BTN calls $1.50, fold, BB calls $1.00

Flop: ($4.75, 3 players) K:heart: Q:club: 2:club:
BB checks, Hero bets $3.00, BTN calls $3.00, BB raises to $11.00, Hero calls $8.00, fold

Turn: ($29.75, 2 players) 6:spade:
BB bets $15.00, Hero calls $15.00

River: ($59.75, 2 players) K:club:
BB bets $68.30 and is all-in, Hero?

OMGITSOVER9K · Apr 8, 2013

?

PokerStars - $0.50 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): $50.00
BTN: $40.39 (VPIP: 21.55, PFR: 16.61, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 291)
SB: $54.08 (VPIP: 23.70, PFR: 17.04, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 135)
BB: $57.56 (VPIP: 33.12, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 8.22, Hands: 157)
UTG: $88.01 (VPIP: 20.15, PFR: 15.56, 3Bet Preflop: 5.77, Hands: 401)
MP: $182.85 (VPIP: 38.57, PFR: 21.08, 3Bet Preflop: 10.34, Hands: 228)

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has 7:spade: 7:diamond:

UTG raises to $1.50, MP calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, fold, fold

Flop: ($6.75, 4 players) 7:club: 3:spade: Q:heart:
UTG checks, MP bets $2.00, Hero calls $2.00, fold, UTG calls $2.00

Turn: ($12.75, 3 players) J:spade:
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets $7.00, UTG raises to $20.00, fold, Hero?

Matt Vaughan · Apr 8, 2013

A6s, pre is fine. If he can do that with AKo and/or KJs, I think you have to call, if he ever does it with FDs then I think we also have to call, if neither then you can maybe find a fold.

77 hand, as played on the flop I prob just GII on the turn. Imo he's repping a lot of QJ. But I prob raise the flop tbh. Yes you can keep UTG in with some AK by flatting, but I think MP is repping considerable strength with his bet OTF, right?

orangepeeleo · Apr 8, 2013

I wouldnt say MP is showing strength betting that small otf, he's a fish so prob just putting out some mong blocker bet, I don't think he calls much when we raise, boards too dry right?

Ott it looks like UTG maybe hit his set with JJ, but he could have QJ, does he really get that excited by it though?

This thread is a goldmine of conversation btw, don't contribute much b/c I feel like I can't add much a lot of the time, but constantly lurking, keep it up

EDIT: I do raise the flop actually, or else it'll be hard to build a decent pot with our set, but i maybe only make it 2.5x instead of the standard 3x to try and keep MP's meh hands in

taaron · Apr 8, 2013

The 77 hand I think is a fold. The guy seems tight, and as he played it oop, i would play QQ, JJ, 33 and the rare Axss, the same way. I have a hard time believing he has QJ here.

But given villains pfr range and being utg; I doubt its Axss, if it is it can only be AKss.

Actually had a hand very simliar to this 2 days ago.

hey, i'm 9k. #3

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