JJ or AT

Mariadelaluz · Jun 8, 2020

I can´t forget this situation.I opened 2bb on cut off. But, BTN raised to 4bb & I called.
The flop is T42r. BTN raised 30% of CB.
Which hand is more valueble for me to make a call?
1. JJ
2. AT

DrGreenthumb420 · Jun 9, 2020

After making a weird 3bet he can continue Any 2 with 30% cbet here really. Imo you should raise jj and at both for value and protection.
Best regards

Mariadelaluz · Jun 9, 2020

I think ATs.
In terms of hand ranking, they are almost the same. But ATs has potential to cooler BTN 3b range when an Ace hit on the turn or river. Also blocking some value hand. 3/4 of ATs would have a bdfd as well. JJ doesn’t block any value. And fairly small potential to improve.

5KINGLEO5 · Jun 9, 2020

I would call a cbet flop and check raise the turn.

pokerlover304 · Jun 9, 2020

Using the situation you described and assuming 6 players are playing, if you have JJ, then your odds of winning is roughly 36%:

https://app.edge.poker/?n=6&h=Js,Jh&s=10h,4d,2h

If you have AT (non-suited), your odds is also around 36%:

https://app.edge.poker/?n=6&h=As,10c&s=10h,4d,2h

So, I guess it doesn't matter too much. But, if you have A hearts on with the flop I described, your chances of winning becomes 42%.

https://app.edge.poker/?n=6&h=Ah,10c&s=10h,4d,2h

So, it depends quite a bit on the flop.

c0rnBr34d · Jun 10, 2020

Mariadelaluz said:
I think ATs.
In terms of hand ranking, they are almost the same. But ATs has potential to cooler BTN 3b range when an Ace hit on the turn or river. Also blocking some value hand. 3/4 of ATs would have a bdfd as well. JJ doesn’t block any value. And fairly small potential to improve.

The title and OP just mention AT in general. This answer narrows to ATs. I agree in general though. A typical 3 bet range we can use for example is AQ+, TT+ for CO vs BTN. This could be wider but for the sake of simplicity we will go with this. In this scenario
AT has 40.2% equity against that range while JJ has 35.7%.

Even if we add AJ or go down to 88+ the AT always seems to maintain 5% or more equity than the JJ.

Two last points.
1 - There are only 2 BDFDs on a rainbow flop if we hold ATs as described, but I agree they add some equity.

2 - This should not imply that we prefer to have AT or ATs vs this range pre flop over having JJ. If we do the same comparison with no flop then JJ has more equity pre flop than ATo or ATs against AQ+, TT+. It only flips after we flop top pair top kicker (which is rare).

heeyjean · Jun 12, 2020

If i had JJ, problably would do a check raise on every street.

osvimanCC · Jun 12, 2020

I think that a standard open to 3x should be your first option. If you open for 2x, the villain can call basically with any two. The raise to 4bb is also a tricky play. So when the flop comes T42 you should probably not call the cBet but rather reraise.

And I think that JJ or AT both are good hands to do so.

MusterIsBack · Jun 12, 2020

When you are in such a situation, it is better to use a some App for calculate after the game and see which one of hand you was better able to win.
But I think it's better to re-raise with your hands, and JJ is a better option to keep playing. Of course, hanging an idol depends on the amount of stack you have on the table.

imhereforfreerolls · Jun 20, 2020

In terms of opening hands, JJ is much stronger

Steve Deeble · Jun 23, 2020

Definitely overpair is the stronger hand and more likely hand to win with.

Liedust · Jun 23, 2020

I would check raise on the flop with JJ ...... With AT I call flat and I wait for the turn. Regards.

valetgll · Jun 23, 2020

With this flop, AT is the best option. If you have two pocket jacks you can already throw them away.

Kantin0 · Jun 24, 2020

Thanks for the tool to calculate the rate of victory

pokerlover304 said:
Using the situation you described and assuming 6 players are playing, if you have JJ, then your odds of winning is roughly 36%:

https://app.edge.poker/?n=6&h=Js,Jh&s=10h,4d,2h

If you have AT (non-suited), your odds is also around 36%:

https://app.edge.poker/?n=6&h=As,10c&s=10h,4d,2h

So, I guess it doesn't matter too much. But, if you have A hearts on with the flop I described, your chances of winning becomes 42%.

https://app.edge.poker/?n=6&h=Ah,10c&s=10h,4d,2h

So, it depends quite a bit on the flop.

Vallet · Jun 24, 2020

I can only say that JJ's hand may surprise many on such a flop. A high pocket pair is fine. AT is easy to read here for the opponent.

BasTid · Jun 24, 2020

Dude calculated the codes AT would appear to be better if its the Ah

davidsincara · Jun 25, 2020

Mariadelaluz said:
I can´t forget this situation.I opened 2bb on cut off. But, BTN raised to 4bb & I called.
The flop is T42r. BTN raised 30% of CB.
Which hand is more valueble for me to make a call?
1. JJ
2. AT

in my case, JJ always bust for me, AT has more power for gettng top pair, straight and in the last case, A high hehe.. of course, SUITED is better

enzomyn · Jun 25, 2020

Mariadelaluz said:
I can´t forget this situation.I opened 2bb on cut off. But, BTN raised to 4bb & I called.
The flop is T42r. BTN raised 30% of CB.
Which hand is more valueble for me to make a call?
1. JJ
2. AT

In my opinion, in this case the best hand to play is the AT, just for the out's offered by the flop. But JJ is not a disposable hand, it is a difficult analysis.

MusterIsBack · Jun 25, 2020

At this stage, it is best to use poker-programs that tell you the chances of winning. I've reconstructed you in the game below, and it's clear that JJ has a better chance of winning.

thwenth1983 · Jul 1, 2020

JJ

Good morning everyone.
JJ or AT, I prefer JJ, when you hit another J on the flop you have a very strong hand, on many flop with J, you are nuts, with AT, even if you hit two T on the flop or two A, you may be losing to full, which in cash games happens frequently, JJ always.

Edgerik · Jul 1, 2020

JJ is more likely to win the hand on that flop.

poliaris747 · Jul 26, 2020

I believe that 2 pairs are always preferable in this situation although today I am playing a video but there are examples that I can not say with certainty having for example 2 kings on my hands I was beaten with 8 3 mismatched a? huh?

UkoChebuko · Jul 26, 2020

If you decide not to 4bet, then just call. AT, JJ, KK, T6, 99, 88, whatever. Call...

jleon_zat · Jul 29, 2020

more value I think JJ. because the couple is complete

JJ or AT

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