Live Grind: How to Fall Asleep at the Table (Without Getting Caught)

  • Thread starter Thread starter Matt Vaughan
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Scourrge said:
That exact hand happened to me recently except there was a shorty who had AA too. Ten hits the flop and the guy with TT jumps out of his chair going "YES!!! YES!!!!"

In other news, left arm was a bit numb at work around 2pm today so I called doc, she said go to emergency room. Got my coworker to drive me, and at the ER, they said no sign of stroke, no sign of multiple sclerosis, but I need to follow up at neurology in 2-4 weeks, cause I still had some abnormal stuff come up in my MRI.

Feeling a little dazed from the whole hospital experience, particularly since had to be by myself (officemate had to leave and go back to work after dropping me). Feel free to AMA about the experience. I work in healthcare IT, so I always find it fascinating to see the healthcare process in general, but particularly while they are using a product that I work on every day.
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Thats weird though ever since i was a kid my body has been doing unexplainable things its usually nothing but strokes are no joke either. Up 200 the bellagio plan on sitting for at least another 6 hours people are finally starting to file in so we will see where this goes.
 
Thanks guys. Arm feels totally normal as of yesterday morning, which is definitely good. Will go to my follow up in a few weeks to see what's up though.

Metsdude396 said:
Funny enough Scouuurge a ton a people go to Epic in Madison out of my undergrad. How big is the company?
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Where did you go to undergrad? The company has over 9,000 employees now (yes, that is accurate and not a joke 🙂 ).
 
Hope everything is ok with you Scourrge. Glad to hear arm is feeling normal again.
 
Thanks for the well wishes guys. Everything is still feeling normal, and I have a follow up scheduled with the neurology clinic. A little scared about what I'll be hearing back, but overall in a good state given the reason I went to the ER.

In poker news, things have been fairly shitty overall still. Lots of losing, and lately just no time to play, though I've been trying to make a big point to study at least a little bit daily. Tonight though, I managed to get to my normal uncapped 1/2 home game. It was a pretty standard night, though there were several unknowns there. I definitely didn't play my A game in every single spot, but overall I was pleased. I picked up value in some spots where typically I would have auto-checked it back, and I didn't tilt even after some pretty horrendous spots.

Even better, I booked my first legitimate win in what feels like ages. I played from about 7:45pm last night until 6am this morning, and I won $490. The last time that I had a win bigger than $100 was 9/18, and that timespan includes 3 winning sessions and 6 losing sessions (for a total of about -$4.5k). I know that one winning session does not a downswing break, but it's good to at least have a respite from the constant hammering.

I'm pretty exhausted from work this week, so I doubt I'll be playing anymore this weekend, but that might change after I've had some sleep. All in all, pleased with my play tonight, and eager to get back to some higher volume!
 
It sucks to go through a long time without having a killer winning session but at least you seem to be coping with it well on a mental level.


Do you only play live or are you playing online as well?

And another thing. I dont know if my memory is correct but didnt u win like 30K in a tournament somewhere recently?
 
the reason im asking about the live or online is because personally i don't see why people would grind live when you have to drive a long way to get to te casino when you can just play the same games in the comfort of your own home?

and at the same time get more volume in and not get bored from the slow place that might sometimes lead to playing hands that we would usually snap fold online.
 
Glad to hear things are ok with you (health wise ATM).


As for live vs. online:

Online doesn't even feel like real poker to me. It is like playing poker, with 75% of the experience removed. Live is just way better for me.
 
vinylspiros said:
the reason im asking about the live or online is because personally i don't see why people would grind live when you have to drive a long way to get to te casino when you can just play the same games in the comfort of your own home?

and at the same time get more volume in and not get bored from the slow place that might sometimes lead to playing hands that we would usually snap fold online.
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Because live 200nl and 500nl is MEGA soft.
 
Mr Sandbag said:
Because live 200nl and 500nl is MEGA soft.
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I get it. Ive never played live which is kinda funny cause ive been playing for a while now. Anytime someone tells me to go play live,i just imagine a really slow motion version of what i do online and cant even bother.

Want to some day though. Its way beyond my poker BRM as well. Do you have to have like a bankroll of 15k to play 500NL properly? or does proper BRM not apply for live games?
 
BRM applies but it's def more flexible for live. I think you'd be absolutely stunned at the level of play even at 500nl (and 1000nl in some places).
 
Mr Sandbag said:
BRM applies but it's def more flexible for live. I think you'd be absolutely stunned at the level of play even at 500nl (and 1000nl in some places).
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Spot on. It's like animal planet.
 
vinylspiros said:
It sucks to go through a long time without having a killer winning session but at least you seem to be coping with it well on a mental level.


Do you only play live or are you playing online as well?

And another thing. I dont know if my memory is correct but didnt u win like 30K in a tournament somewhere recently?
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It was 22k after tax, but you're right. That was in April, and since then I've been on the worst cash downswing of my life, which was mostly from shots at 5/10 NL and 1/2/5 PLO, and my usual game of 2/5 NL. I'm not going to talk exact numbers here, but suffice it to say that it's a sizable percentage of my winnings from that tournament.

vinylspiros said:
the reason im asking about the live or online is because personally i don't see why people would grind live when you have to drive a long way to get to te casino when you can just play the same games in the comfort of your own home?

and at the same time get more volume in and not get bored from the slow place that might sometimes lead to playing hands that we would usually snap fold online.
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It's different in the US imo because it's not really as safe to have a lot of cash online. I haven't sustained more than like $1,500 online in ages, and I don't have the time or energy to maintain volume. It's also different enough to live that I find myself sometimes struggling to play correctly online.
 
The biggest problem with online is your roll could be gone tomorrow and the transaction fees are horrendous to move money on and off. I believe Bovada is 8% to load money and you get one free withdrawl a month.

I also firmly believe 5c/10c is harder online than 2/5 live. Plus you dont get those what i call ultra spew players who will lose 5 buy ins in an hour.

In a game where the max buy in is 40 BB and its not that deep my basic strategy should be to play premium hands hit TPTK type hands and get it in by the turn right? No need to even really play things like 10s unless im on the button and its limped. Obviously there is a lot more to it than that but thats basically how it should be played right?
 
Jzona1 said:
The biggest problem with online is your roll could be gone tomorrow and the transaction fees are horrendous to move money on and off. I believe Bovada is 8% to load money and you get one free withdrawl a month.

I also firmly believe 5c/10c is harder online than 2/5 live. Plus you dont get those what i call ultra spew players who will lose 5 buy ins in an hour.
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Yeah I mean that's totally valid. It just sucks since that's by far the easiest way for me to get volume. If I was under an hour drive from Hammond, or even like, half an hour from Milwaukee instead of 1.5 hours, I prob wouldn't bitch about this, but volume is a real problem.

As someone whose ideal poker hours are probably something like 30/week, it's hard to not ever be able to play on weekdays.

In a game where the max buy in is 40 BB and its not that deep my basic strategy should be to play premium hands hit TPTK type hands and get it in by the turn right? No need to even really play things like 10s unless im on the button and its limped. Obviously there is a lot more to it than that but thats basically how it should be played right?
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I think you hammered home some important points. Definitely stick to premiums as much as possible, particularly up front. TPTK will absolutely be the nuts most of the time, and enough to gii with.

I think it's an overstatement to say that you can't play mid PP's like TT though. You're going to be able to find plenty of spots to play those hands profitably unless no one is ever limping and the raise sizes are large. Cause the thing is, with short stacks, implied odds to people's stacks go up, so you get paid way more with hands like sets. But for sure you need to be aware of situations where it's better to just let them go. (Small pairs should be folds in MP and earlier unless it's limped and the table is mega passive, avoid calling open raises with mid pairs when it's likely to go HU and the villain has a tight range, etc.)

It'll be tougher to make moves as well - another byproduct of how easy it is for people to gii. I also suspect people will play somewhat less passively with their value hands, but also bluff less, because no one is folding.

Also don't forget that these games can still GET deeper. Being aware of stack size will be absolutely critical though because at any given time you'll prob be up against some people who are 20-40bb deep, and a couple who are deeper.
 
gf was out of town this weekend so I spent it in Milwaukee grinding. Put in about 26 hours, about 23 of which were at 2/5. I managed two winning sessions over 1k, and a loss of -140. All in all a pretty nice weekend. Brings me back enough that I'm strongly considering playing the MSPT at Ho Chunk this coming weekend. I'm still sort of up in the air about it though.
 
Scourrge said:
gf was out of town this weekend so I spent it in Milwaukee grinding. Put in about 26 hours, about 23 of which were at 2/5. I managed two winning sessions over 1k, and a loss of -140. All in all a pretty nice weekend. Brings me back enough that I'm strongly considering playing the MSPT at Ho Chunk this coming weekend. I'm still sort of up in the air about it though.
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I am glad to hear things are turning around for you. Keep it up man.
 
Wheels appear like they MIGHT be back on the bus now. I've strung a couple wins together, and I had a min-cash or so at the MSPT, so I'm definitely sitting a little more comfy with my BR now.

But it was really tough just to min-cash the MSPT. I came into day 2 with the 5th largest stack and 71 remaining players. I lost the first 4 hands that I played on day 2, all of them where I had the right read with a very marginal value hand and then got beat on the river. I lost one huge hand QQ < 88 AIPF against a complete monkey (he's a cash game reg at poto and somehow isn't broke). That was for like 70% of my stack, and after that I just didn't win any hands. I squeaked by into the money, then started exploiting people's tight call-off ranges by shoving at minimum once per orbit (despite having literally nothing better than J high for like 8 orbits lol).

In the end I made what felt like a bit of a misstep but was still technically mathematically correct. Whale on my immediate left opens to 3bb UTG and it folds to me in BB with AJs. This is the best hand I've seen in hours, and I have 11bb, so I just shipped it, even though I knew that his UTG range (based on how much he was limping, and his showdowns) was pretty tight. He snapped me off with AKo and held. I did the math later, and with blinds and antes, as long as his opening range is at least TT+/AJ+, I'm doing just fine, regardless of if he never folds.

The brutal part is that he was just awful and went on to place fifth. The entire final table lineup was terrible aside from two players who were decent but nitty, and I watched the first hour of coverage - just titanic mistakes being made left and right. I speculate that if I'd gotten to that final table with a reasonable stack, I would have been 20-30% to win.
 
Scourrge said:
Wheels appear like they MIGHT be back on the bus now. I've strung a couple wins together, and I had a min-cash or so at the MSPT, so I'm definitely sitting a little more comfy with my BR now.

But it was really tough just to min-cash the MSPT. I came into day 2 with the 5th largest stack and 71 remaining players. I lost the first 4 hands that I played on day 2, all of them where I had the right read with a very marginal value hand and then got beat on the river. I lost one huge hand QQ < 88 AIPF against a complete monkey (he's a cash game reg at poto and somehow isn't broke). That was for like 70% of my stack, and after that I just didn't win any hands. I squeaked by into the money, then started exploiting people's tight call-off ranges by shoving at minimum once per orbit (despite having literally nothing better than J high for like 8 orbits lol).

In the end I made what felt like a bit of a misstep but was still technically mathematically correct. Whale on my immediate left opens to 3bb UTG and it folds to me in BB with AJs. This is the best hand I've seen in hours, and I have 11bb, so I just shipped it, even though I knew that his UTG range (based on how much he was limping, and his showdowns) was pretty tight. He snapped me off with AKo and held. I did the math later, and with blinds and antes, as long as his opening range is at least TT+/AJ+, I'm doing just fine, regardless of if he never folds.

The brutal part is that he was just awful and went on to place fifth. The entire final table lineup was terrible aside from two players who were decent but nitty, and I watched the first hour of coverage - just titanic mistakes being made left and right. I speculate that if I'd gotten to that final table with a reasonable stack, I would have been 20-30% to win.
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I'm glad to hear things are turning around for you now.


Titanic mistakes, Lol. Tourneys do have a large element of luck involved (yang, gold, etc.).


All you can do is play your cards. That's the only element you can control.


88 vs QQ was gross.



We will see you on TV soon enough. Keep at it man.
 
Thanks Bean! I found out today that there's an MSPT about 4.5 hours away in Shakopee, MN in a week and a half. Strongly considering going, cause the MSPT is seriously sooooo soft. If anyone is in the area and wants to meet up, lemme know and maybe we can grab a bite or chill at the casino.
 
Two horrific sessions in a row erases any and all recent wins. Still waiting for that magical moment when I stop going two steps forward and two steps back.

Still planning to play the MSPT next weekend though, and today I'm playing a $300 "Celebrity" Bounty tourney. Mark "Poker H0" Kroon is one of the bounties, as are a couple other locals.

Normal structure is $200 + $20 entry fee + $20 bounty + $20 "optional" dealer fee (for 5k extra starting chips). Celebrity bounties are worth $200 I believe. It has rebuys, but I'm probably firing two shots at max. If I bust early I might play cash, but I'm a bit skittish from earlier this weekend so we shall see.
 
Actually Mark Kroon wasn't a bounty, oddly enough.

And I'm not a bounty cause apparently I'm not famous enough.
 
Scourge although i dont post here all the time , i read your thread regularly and enjoy reading your poker experiences. Good luck in the tourney coming up next week. Hope u run good in it man.
 
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