fx20736 said:
Obviously open raising these hands will be more profitable than calling a raise but it's not possible to choose between doing one or the other at the same time.
Yes it's a leak for you, you've identified a leak so fix it.
How would I suggest you do that? Look at which ones you actually can cold call and profit. Then practice with these hands and make them even more profitable. Then when you have a good idea of how to play them add some weaker hands to the point where you're turning neutral EV hands (just folding) to winning ones.
You listed these as hands you've made a loss with but I think you need to see the difference between IP and OOP and then see what positions you're calling raises from. Is the raiser in EP or LP?
Fwiw against someone who isn't terrible. I'm calling all of the above hands OTB vs the CO. In the blinds I'm only calling with AJs, AQ, KQ vs the CO/BTN.
OTB I'm probs only calling EP raises (I play 6-max tho) with the second range. It's what I know is profitable for me.
Ah right thanks for helping me guys so would a number of 1 be classed as passive? Would you reccomend using Agg frequency instead?
And thanks for naming and shaming us complex haha, ive actually been a spewy maniac now ive moved up to 10NL - 14/12/3 - at 2nl i was a 9/7 at 5 nl a 10/8.
heading in the right direction?
And thanks for naming and shaming us complex haha, ive actually been a spewy maniac now ive moved up to 10NL - 14/12/3 - at 2nl i was a 9/7 at 5 nl a 10/8.
heading in the right direction?
Just wondering, isnt pfr pretty pointless when putting people on a range when they might be 20% from one position and 4% from another? like im a 14/12 but im pretty sure in the later positions im probably raising around 20% of hands? Should we always look at pfr by position when putting people on a range, and only use the one on our huds as a general guide? Sorry for all the questions ive just had a massive urge to spew questions around
WVHillbilly said:
I am one of those bastards that has "raise flop %" on my hud and sometimes (not that often, but not that rare either) 3-bet with air on a dry board. This is where it stops at 20nl at least.
And I've only found extremely few people that do the same, so one shouldn't worry about it - kind of like a set over set situation. I only shoved air in spots like this when I thought someone was 3-bet bluffing me on a board only 2-3 times in 80k hands, as far as I recall.
brank said:
+1000000
It really helps to look at someone's raise by position if you have enough hands on them. Do it all the time when you don't know whether to call, 3bet or fold their UTG raise etc.
I think most those default comments in the HA section "He raised in early position, his range is strong, blablablabla" are assuming way too much.
WVHillbilly said:
They hit a set on the turn 4% of the time. They hit it on the flop 11% of the time. By not c-betting single pairs on dry boards you take away a set miner's chance to get stacks in by the river. If I open raise 4xbb with AA and get called pot is 8bb. If I c-bet 4bb and get called pot is now 16bb. If I make a 1/2 pot bet on the turn and get called pot is now 32bb. On the river it becomes 64bb. By taking a street out by checking and c-betting the turn the pot is smaller so if villain has 2 pair or a set he doesn't get paid off as much.Also you are more likely to get worse hands to bet on the turn that might have check/folded on the flop.
Now I'm not saying I do this vs all opponents but the lower their call PFR is the more likely they are to set mine. In analyzing my db I realize I lose most with single pairs on the River so I am trying to fix this.
WVHillbilly said:
50% of the time when I c-bet villain folds. 11% of the time they have a set, 2% of the time they have 2-pair, so 37% I get called by worse. How many of those hands would call a flop c-bet and a turn c-bet? Probably only the hands that bet when we check; i..e. smaller overpairs or Top Pairs. Now if villain is a donkey and will call 3 streets with a A9 on a 9 high flop I'll bet all the way. If once in a blue moon I give up 4-12bb by checking, I make it back by not stacking off vs a set. Am I missing something or aren't we supposed to keep pots small with small hands?
This thread has been dormant all week. Let's get some life into this patient.
You know what is bugging me?
the starting hand KJ (suited or offsuit). I just seem to lose alot with it. What does everyone else think about the hand and what are your results?
You know what is bugging me?
the starting hand KJ (suited or offsuit). I just seem to lose alot with it. What does everyone else think about the hand and what are your results?
fx20736 said:
If you're not the PFR and you flop a J, I think you should be OK. If you hit a K, though, you should proceed very cautiously, keeping the pot small.
My reasoning for this is the fact that there are a lot more Kx type hands in villain's raising range that dominate us than there are Jx type hands that dominate us (only one, basically, AJ). It's very villain dependent, of course.
And since against most tightish pre-flop raisers you're going to be playing with only one card, it's normal to be losing with it.
Just thread cautiously when you hit a K and call more liberally when you hit a J. You can also play it pretty much as AK against late position raisers. Don't play it from the blinds, though. Unless you get ecstatic when you have the opportunity to c/f flops.
And never limp/call with it. That's just bad however you look at it.
P.S. I'm at work right now so can't post results, but I will do it first thing when I get home.
Had KJs and KJo a combined 239 times and won 2.23$ with them so far (37.87bb/100).
I've put money into the pot with them about 48% of the time and raised 39%, most of that is raising to isolate fish when IP. The calling is when I'm in the small blind and I call in a limped pot (which I know isn't great but I just can't help it some times), which I did 5 times over the 18k hand sample.
As I said, I only really ever play it unopened in the CO or BTN (6max) or IP against a fish. I almost always fold it against non loose fish.
I've put money into the pot with them about 48% of the time and raised 39%, most of that is raising to isolate fish when IP. The calling is when I'm in the small blind and I call in a limped pot (which I know isn't great but I just can't help it some times), which I did 5 times over the 18k hand sample.
As I said, I only really ever play it unopened in the CO or BTN (6max) or IP against a fish. I almost always fold it against non loose fish.
Great feedback. I never call a raise and I don't limp so the only time I will play KJ is to open from the CO unless I'm feeling extra-nitty then I'll only open OTB. KJ & AT are just such trouble hands that win small pots and have the potential to lose big ones. Not only by being dominated but also by flopping K high straights and losing to A high or flopping 2 pair and losing to a straight. Of course all Broadway combos (ex. AK) have this possibilty but not too many players look at QT and get excited. I just think KJ, like AQo look real pretty but are in fact pretty weak. (Paper Tigers).
Dogmeat; I did finally break down and try 6max.
Dogmeat; I did finally break down and try 6max.
KJ & AT in an unopened pot in LP is a big hand imo, on my ubuntu laptop atm so cant get stats. Like a prev poster has said, i'll isolate with it all day long, and might even open from MP if the tables (specifically the blinds and those IP on me) tight.
I really think you need to play some 6max fx just to get some more practice in marginal post flop spots, if your not opening KJ from the HJ b/c your scared of playing TPGK thats an issue imo. Like if you have nailed down stats that say your losing when opening KJ in LP then you need to look at those hands and figure out why its a loser, rather than dropping it completely.
Just read the last bit of the above post, its good that your trying 6max, i'd recommend at least 1 session per week, play 2-4 tables tiled and really get to work playing postflop and exploiting people based on solid reads, read fee's 6max guide if you havent already.
If nothing else it will make you more comfortable playing in unopened pots from say MP, as then its really just like 6max UTG, cept you'll probs have more nittier people to your left, making it easier to play as they are mostly playing faceup.
I really think you need to play some 6max fx just to get some more practice in marginal post flop spots, if your not opening KJ from the HJ b/c your scared of playing TPGK thats an issue imo. Like if you have nailed down stats that say your losing when opening KJ in LP then you need to look at those hands and figure out why its a loser, rather than dropping it completely.
Just read the last bit of the above post, its good that your trying 6max, i'd recommend at least 1 session per week, play 2-4 tables tiled and really get to work playing postflop and exploiting people based on solid reads, read fee's 6max guide if you havent already.
If nothing else it will make you more comfortable playing in unopened pots from say MP, as then its really just like 6max UTG, cept you'll probs have more nittier people to your left, making it easier to play as they are mostly playing faceup.
I was planning on adding to this thread today because it hasnt seen much action lately. Then you guys went ahead and started it up. Sweet.
What I was gonna suggest was using the COTW on double barreling. Its a great concept to use because it means you can win a decent amount of med size pots which really add to your win rate. What do y'all think about that?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78/micro-stakes-full-ring/cotw-double-barreling-651776/
What I was gonna suggest was using the COTW on double barreling. Its a great concept to use because it means you can win a decent amount of med size pots which really add to your win rate. What do y'all think about that?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78/micro-stakes-full-ring/cotw-double-barreling-651776/
Before i get into the double barrelling COTW properly, i wanna nail C-betting, of course we all know how to do it and how important it is, but ive heard a lot about when we're playing a passive fish to pot sized bet almost when we hit our top pair, isnt this giving away our hand strength from our normal cbet? i know most people are really unobservant at the micros, but how do you guys vary your c bets? By board texture? Do we cbet more or less on wet boards that may have hit villains range or do we not c bet at all? Do we do our standard c bet on a K 8 2 rainbow flop against a passive fish when we have AK or do we fire a pot sized c-bet? or a half sized to induce calls more?
My standard cbet is around 2/3rds of the pot as i found at micros my half sized cbets get reraised a hell of a lot more, but im guessing this is board dependant also... Any c betting advice? could be an area we're losing value and throwing money away...
My standard cbet is around 2/3rds of the pot as i found at micros my half sized cbets get reraised a hell of a lot more, but im guessing this is board dependant also... Any c betting advice? could be an area we're losing value and throwing money away...