Micro FR Study Group

  • Thread starter Thread starter orangepeeleo
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the wa/wb theory only applies when the wb part of villain's range often folds, so betting shows no real purpose. Both of those hands are by definition wa/wb, but the composition of their ranges and the reactions they take to a cbet are completely different than something like KK on Axx or KQ on AQx for example.

In both those scenarios, your opponent has a wb part of his range that contains lots of Ax hands (and pretty often something like 99 will peel once in hand 2, or JJ in hand 1), so doing anything other than value betting is just silly.
 
Okay. So I don't have to be too concerned with a wa/wb scenario like the above because a lot of the wb range is calling a value bet. What if I had KK in either of those hands, should I be more inclined to check? Seems maybe the 3bet pot would be better to check if i had KK and not AK where the 2nd hand would still be a bet.
 
There is a lot of good information here. Subscribing to this for sure.

Just this last page alerted me of a leak in my game.
 
Lofwyr said:
What if I had KK in either of those hands, should I be more inclined to check? Seems maybe the 3bet pot would be better to check if i had KK and not AK where the 2nd hand would still be a bet.
Click to expand...

Why?

Too impatient to wait for an answer, but it would probably be better to bet in hand 2 than in hand 1 (the main reason being that there are more underpairs he can call with), but it may still be better to check overall. It would depend on villain's range and how he reacts with different parts of it.

In general, yes, you should be more inclined to check with KK. The simple reason is that villain's flop calling range will consist of the same hands, but KK now loses to all Ax hands whereas AK wins against them, so in other words, your value is thinner. Thin to the point of being too thin, and thus checking to induce from 66 or whatever and/or try to get to showdown is often better.
 
Responding to the why -> Basically I would think there are enough hands in the loose/passive guy's range that can still call a value bet on the flop compared to hands that are ahead. Being OOP leans me toward betting as well, would rather go for value here than wait for another card.

You're saying checking is still better though?
 
Lofwyr said:
Responding to the why -> Basically I would think there are enough hands in the loose/passive guy's range that can still call a value bet on the flop compared to hands that are ahead. Being OOP leans me toward betting as well, would rather go for value here than wait for another card.

You're saying checking is still better though?
Click to expand...

The problem is not giving another card though. The problem is all the Ax hands in their ranges. The same reason that you bet AK (they'll call with lots of worse Aces) is the reason you should be more inclined to check if you have KK.

If they don't have an Ace they have at most 5 outs (assuming they hit a pair less than the Ace on the flop). We can chance that.
 
Lofwyr said:
How do you guys handle WAWB type situations when OOP? Do you tend to favor just betting your hand or is checking and evaluating still a more ideal line? Similarly, do you give WAWB much precedence in 3bet pots?
Click to expand...

ChuckTs and WV have basically explained this, but Ill throw in an explaination just for completeness.

WA/WB dosent really apply with AK on an A high board.

Otherwise anytime you bet without the mortal nuts you would be in a WA/WB situation.

As chuck says the crux of being in a WA/WB situation is that you probably have the best hand but its almost impossible to get called by worse.

AK can get called by worse hands i.e. AQ,AJ,AT or even KK or QQ for one street, so its not WA/WB

KK is more likely to be WA/WB because you probably have the best hand but when you bet it you fold out all the hands you beat i.e. 22-JJ and random high cards under an ace.

You may still get called by QQ or JJ but this is dwarfed by all the AX hands he calls with.

Against his entire range KK is likely ahead but its behind most of his calling range.

You can usually call a single bet in a WA/WB situation because he can be betting hands you beat (although he isnt likely to bet several streets with a hand you beat) but you cant bet yourself as he probably wont call with much you beat, so the times you were ahead he folds and the times you are behind he calls.
 
How can i filter my HEM so that it will show when i'm facing a donk bet on the flop?I would like to post some hands in here for some thoughts.
 
In the more filters tab add : "PFR=True", "Flop was bet into=True".

Problem is it also puts in the hands where you called a 3 bet and got bet into on flop, looking for another solution.
 
ok i'm fixin to post the first 10 hands that i got donked bet no order just the first 10.
villain 25\18\3 DB 9%

Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1260704
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $10.00
CO: $12.18
BTN: $10.00
SB: $14.34
BB: $27.58
Hero (UTG): $10.32

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A :spade: J :diamond:
Hero raises to $0.30, 4 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) K :club: 8 :club: 7 :heart: (2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, BB calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.85) 7 :club: (2 players)
BB bets $2.00, Hero folds

Final Pot: $2.85
BB wins $2.66
(Rake: $0.19)

villain 62\38\2 DB 92%Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players - View hand 1260706
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $7.05
BB: $10.00
Hero (BTN): $10.55

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with Q :club: J :spade:
Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) T :spade: 3 :spade: 2 :club: (2 players)
SB bets $0.70, Hero folds

Final Pot: $0.70
SB wins $0.66
(Rake: $0.04)

villain 44\3\5 DB 50%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1260710
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $11.29
Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $9.85
BB: $13.63

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 9 :spade: T :spade:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) Q :diamond: 4 :club: J :heart: (2 players)
SB bets $0.70, Hero raises to $2.10, SB folds

Final Pot: $2.10
Hero wins $0.56
(Rake: $0.14)

villain 75\8\7DB80%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1260712
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $10.46
BTN: $3.94
SB: $12.26
BB: $12.71
UTG: $10.00
Hero (MP): $10.15

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q :club: K :heart:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) A :spade: 6 :heart: 9 :diamond: (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, SB folds

Final Pot: $1.10
Hero wins $0.43
(Rake: $0.07)

villain 67\0\7DB100%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1260718
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $9.03
SB: $10.05
BB: $8.57
UTG: $25.54
Hero (CO): $21.32

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with T :spade: T :club:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 8 :club: J :diamond: K :spade: (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.85) K :diamond: (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

River: ($1.05) 4 :diamond: (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

Final Pot: $1.25
BB shows J :spade: 2 :heart:
Hero mucks T :spade: T :club:
BB wins $1.17
(Rake: $0.08)

villain 74\0\2DB88%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1260721
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $11.13
MP: $10.00
CO: $23.26
BTN: $10.67
SB: $10.59
BB: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with T :diamond: 9 :diamond:
Hero raises to $0.30, 3 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) 8 :diamond: 2 :diamond: Q :spade: (2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.70, SB calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.10) A :heart: (2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

River: ($2.30) 6 :diamond: (2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $4.20, SB folds

Final Pot: $2.50
Hero wins $2.34
(Rake: $-3.94)

villain 74\0\2DB88%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1260723
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $10.47
SB: $10.00
BB: $22.95
UTG: $11.32
MP: $10.87
CO: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 4 :club: 6 :club:
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, MP calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.15) Q :heart: 8 :spade: T :club: (2 players)
MP bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.80, MP folds

Final Pot: $1.35
Hero wins $0.56
(Rake: $0.09)

villain 29\19\2DB33%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 4 players - View hand 1260726
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $10.15
SB: $8.98
BB: $14.86
CO: $17.17

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A :club: 3 :diamond:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) T :heart: J :heart: 8 :heart: (2 players)
BB bets $0.20, Hero folds

Final Pot: $0.65
BB wins $0.61
(Rake: $0.04)

villain 36\30\15DB33%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1260729
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $10.53
BTN: $5.51
SB: $10.00
BB: $9.31
UTG: $6.45

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with K :spade: K :heart:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 8 :club: 6 :diamond: 7 :diamond: (2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.40, BB raises to $9.01, Hero calls $7.61

Turn: ($18.67) 9 :heart: (2 players)

River: ($18.67) 3 :heart: (2 players)

Final Pot: $18.67
Hero shows K :spade: K :heart:
BB shows 6 :club: 8 :spade:
BB wins $17.43
(Rake: $1.24)

villain 52\4\2DB100%
Full Tilt Poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1260731
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $8.31
SB: $9.90
BB: $8.81
UTG: $11.85
MP: $25.27
Hero (CO): $11.53

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J :heart: K :spade:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 4 :diamond: 2 :diamond: K :diamond: (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.25) 2 :heart: (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1, BB folds

Final Pot: $1.85
Hero wins $1.73
(Rake: $0.12)
 
I see no one wants to talk about the hands.How i screwed up what i should have done etc.Seems strange cause i'm sure i missed played several hands because nothing is to consistent just tring to figure these spots outs.
 
JOEBOB69 said:
I see no one wants to talk about the hands.How i screwed up what i should have done etc.Seems strange cause i'm sure i missed played several hands because nothing is to consistent just tring to figure these spots outs.
Click to expand...

I'm not really going to comment on the way you played the hands. I'm having trouble with these spots myself, so I'll wait for someone more competent to do it.

Notice, though, that there are different types of donks:

1) There are the ones where villain just pots it, no matter what cards come and no matter what he has (eg donks mark 1). No idea how to beat them.

2) There are the ones who donk-bet only certain flops and when they do, they make a smallish donk (1/4 of the pot or min-bet) -- the donkey-stations. Most of the time they do this with bottom pair or second pair, no kicker. Personally, I think this kind of player is just a modified calling station. Just treat it as a check and you'll be fine. He's also broadcasted to you what hand he's got. Don't try and bluff them though. As I said, they're still a calling station and will call you even with bottom pair, if the board doesn't look scary enough to them (which is super-subjective).

3) And there are the donk-overbetters. I ****ing hate those sons of $@#ches! Really have no idea on how to beat them. I've found they fold a lot more to raises than the donkey-stations do, though.
 
JOEBOB69 said:
I see no one wants to talk about the hands.How i screwed up what i should have done etc.Seems strange cause i'm sure i missed played several hands because nothing is to consistent just tring to figure these spots outs.
Click to expand...

I've also been thinking about donk bets. I know that I tend to donk bet (right or wrong) when I'm trying to protect a hand against draws and I don't want the player IP to check and get a free card.

I tend to assume that when I'm donked into, it's either a fishy player that hit something and is advertising the fact, an aggro player that just wants to push me off the hand, or a decent player (like me! 🙂) trying to keep me from making my draw.

I know that's very simplistic. Then the simplistic strategy is to respond based on which type of donk this is.

Next I'll post comments about your hands. Then, I'm going to look up the last 5 hands where I was donked into and see if there is such a pattern.

One request:
When you post the stats on the villains, can you also include how many hands total you have on them? This obviously impacts how to interpret their stats.
 
debpes said:
I've also been thinking about donk bets. I know that I tend to donk bet (right or wrong) when I'm trying to protect a hand against draws and I don't want the player IP to check and get a free card.

I tend to assume that when I'm donked into, it's either a fishy player that hit something and is advertising the fact, an aggro player that just wants to push me off the hand, or a decent player (like me! 🙂) trying to keep me from making my draw.

I know that's very simplistic. Then the simplistic strategy is to respond based on which type of donk this is.

Next I'll post comments about your hands. Then, I'm going to look up the last 5 hands where I was donked into and see if there is such a pattern.

One request:
When you post the stats on the villains, can you also include how many hands total you have on them? This obviously impacts how to interpret their stats.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't be drawing out of position. You cannot control the size of the pot and may hit your draw and not get paid offf.
 
Took too much time editing my post and got locked out.

Here's my comments on your hands. Fair warning: I am a casual player. I think I'm fairly decent but I have loads to learn!

ok i'm fixin to post the first 10 hands that i got donked bet no order just the first 10.
villain 25\18\3 DB 9%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A ♠ J ♦
Hero raises to $0.30, 4 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) K ♣ 8 ♣ 7 ♥ (2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, BB calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.85) 7 ♣ (2 players)
BB bets $2.00, Hero folds
Click to expand...
Stats here to me make this look like a decent player. In this situation, I would donk if I had the K, because there's straight and flush draws on the board. So I'd put villain on a K with a good kicker. Maybe suited.


villain 62\38\2 DB 92%
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with Q ♣ J ♠
Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) T ♠ 3 ♠ 2 ♣ (2 players)
SB bets $0.70, Hero folds
Click to expand...
In this case, with an aggro player, I'm not sure what I'd do. I'd tend to think he's just bluffing at the pot with ATC. He probably called the raise because he has an OK hand and thinks your trying to steal. I might consider calling to see the next card because often this was a one-shot try to get the pot and then he'll shut down.

villain 44\3\5 DB 50%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 9 ♠ T ♠
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) Q ♦ 4 ♣ J ♥ (2 players)
SB bets $0.70, Hero raises to $2.10, SB folds
Click to expand...
Can you explain your thinking with this reraise?

villain 75\8\7DB80%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q ♣ K ♥
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) A ♠ 6 ♥ 9 ♦ (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, SB folds
Click to expand...
Seems like the passive player caught a piece and makes a small bet to see where he is. Your raise represented an A and he folded a smaller pair. Do you tend to do this when you are donked by a loose/passive player for such a small % of the pot?


villain 67\0\7DB100%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with T ♠ T ♣
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 8 ♣ J ♦ K ♠ (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10
Click to expand...
Given the way it played out, I agree with the mucking. Going with my thoughts from the last hand, wouldn't a reraise here let you know if this loose/passive player had top pair or not? Or do we figure calling station and we can't get him off any hand?

villain 74\0\2DB88%
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with T ♦ 9 ♦
Hero raises to $0.30, 3 folds, SB calls $0.25, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.70) 8 ♦ 2 ♦ Q ♠ (2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.70, SB calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.10) A ♥ (2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

River: ($2.30) 6 ♦ (2 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $4.20, SB folds
Click to expand...
I think I'd do the flop betting the same way you did. On the turn, with such a small bet from the donk, I'd probably push my diamond and straight draw harder and bet the turn. He might shut down if the ace scares him, but might also call and then you get a bigger payoff if your draws hit.

When the draw hits, and he bets small again like that, I'd reraise but not so big. I want him to pay me more and he'd probably only call a bet that big if he hit a bigger flush. I'd raise to 1.50-2.00.

villain 74\0\2DB88%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 4 ♣ 6 ♣
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.50, 2 folds, MP calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.15) Q ♥ 8 ♠ T ♣ (2 players)
MP bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.80, MP folds
Click to expand...
What's your thinking with the raise to 5x preflop?

villain 29\19\2DB33%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A ♣ 3 ♦
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) T ♥ J ♥ 8 ♥ (2 players)
BB bets $0.20, Hero folds
Click to expand...
I'd assume villain is a decent player. Not sure about the stats on the SB, but if he was nittish, I could raise on the button to steal. Villain makes it a small flop bet. How do we put him on a hand? Small bet from him in this case means what? Very drawy board and we don't hit any of it. I like the fold and save your battle for a better time.

villain 36\30\15DB33%

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with K ♠ K ♥
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 8 ♣ 6 ♦ 7 ♦ (2 players)
BB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.40, BB raises to $9.01, Hero calls $7.61
Click to expand...
I'd like to think that I wouldn't call such a huge reraise. I have great pair, but the board is extremely drawy and a lot beats us. Maybe only if you'd seen this guy already make huge reraise bluffs/semi-bluffs with marginal hands. Tough to put the KK away though. But I think on this kind of board you should (although I really don't know if I'd be able to do that in the same situation).


villain 52\4\2DB100%
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with J ♥ K ♠
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) 4 ♦ 2 ♦ K ♦ (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.25) 2 ♥ (2 players)
BB bets $0.30, Hero raises to $1, BB folds
Click to expand...
I'd probably fold this preflop (I'm wimpy). What was your thinking on the flop and turn? What do you think you would have done if the villain has reraised you on the turn?
 
Can you explain your thinking with this reraise?
He prob has shit he'll prob fold to the raise and it's a semi bluff if he hit top pair etc.And i take controll of the pot AGAIN



When the draw hits, and he bets small again like that, I'd reraise but not so big. I want him to pay me more and he'd probably only call a bet that big if he hit a bigger flush. I'd raise to 1.50-2.00.
Yeah he is prob not paying anything off realy so if there is a chance he wants to call top pair let him.

What's your thinking with the raise to 5x preflop?
The limper was prob pretty bad and i'm squeezing for the free money.


I'd like to think that I wouldn't call such a huge reraise. I have great pair, but the board is extremely drawy and a lot beats us. Maybe only if you'd seen this guy already make huge reraise bluffs/semi-bluffs with marginal hands. Tough to put the KK away though. But I think on this kind of board you should (although I really don't know if I'd be able to do that in the same situation).
I might not should of gave him my stake but,,,,,


I'd probably fold this preflop (I'm wimpy). What was your thinking on the flop and turn? What do you think you would have done if the villain has reraised you on the turn?Your folding kj in the CO playing 6max in a unopened pot?O if he reraises the turn i insta fold he was very passive.[/quote]
 
I set up a report on PT3 for donkbets where I was the preflop raiser first in, called, and then donk bet on the flop.

I came up with 195 hands (out of 33k hands since 1 Dec 2010).

Four examples where I had a monster and pushed with it. I threw in two winners and two losers--but I'll stay away from results and just see if there is any way to identify when pushing with a great pair is a bad idea.

#1

Villain: 26/7 (42 hands; first session together).

Cereus Network - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP+1: $24.49
LP: $9.82
Hero (CO): $10.00
BTN: $1.85
SB: $9.90
BB: $6.88
UTG: $9.85
UTG+1: $11.05
MP: $6.20

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has A♥ A♠

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90, 3 players) Q♦ 8♥ 5♠
SB checks, BB bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.10, fold, BB calls $0.70

Turn: ($3.10, 2 players) Q♥
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($3.10, 2 players) Q♣
BB bets $0.90, Hero raises to $1.80, BB raises to $2.90, Hero calls $1.10


#2
Villain:25/22 (95 hands over 2 sessions). I haven't seen him donk a flop before.

Full Tilt - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $13.23
SB: $1.47
BB: $11.23
UTG: $5.00

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has K♦ K♠

fold, Hero raises to $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.45, 3 players) 4♥ J♦ 3♦
SB checks, BB bets $0.23, Hero raises to $0.46, fold, BB raises to $1.60, Hero raises to $13.08 and is all-in, BB calls $9.48 and is all-in

Turn: ($22.61, 2 players) 3♥

River: ($22.61, 2 players) 2♦

#3
Villain: No history; this is only our 3rd hand together and the first one he's played.
Full Tilt - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $3.24
UTG: $7.98
Hero (CO): $5.15
BTN: $5.06
BB: $5.00

BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.05) Hero has A♣ A♥

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.15, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.30, 2 players) 7♦ A♦ T♥
BB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.70, 2 players) A♠
BB bets $0.44, Hero raises to $1.40, BB raises to $3.70, Hero raises to $4.80 and is all-in, BB calls $0.95 and is all-in

River: ($10.00, 2 players) 2♦

#4
Villain: 34/10 (68 hands). Only have stats from this session and he hasn't DB the flop before (0/3).
Full Tilt - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

SB: $3.19
BB: $4.20
Hero (UTG): $2.06
MP: $1.74
CO: $2.15
BTN: $2.61

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has K♠ K♦

Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, fold, SB calls $0.07, fold

Flop: ($0.18, 2 players) 8♠ 4♠ 2♦
SB bets $0.18, Hero raises to $0.46, SB calls $0.28

Turn: ($1.10, 2 players) J♣
SB checks, Hero bets $0.81, SB raises to $1.62, Hero calls $0.71 and is all-in

River: ($4.14, 2 players) Q♦
 
fx20736 said:
You shouldn't be drawing out of position. You cannot control the size of the pot and may hit your draw and not get paid offf.
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pretty sure depbes is talking about betting OOP, not with a draw, but to protect her hand vs a drawy board
 
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debpes, just one overall thing about your hands is your raise sizing OTF is super small. For ex on the last hand OTF you can make it at least .60c and still get the same amount of calls
 
I've been donked more than twice as much as you this year (417).I don't think i've ever seen this much before.Last year was 140 total,not all that much voulme last year but still a good bit.
 
Tyler69 said:
debpes, just one overall thing about your hands is your raise sizing OTF is super small. For ex on the last hand OTF you can make it at least .60c and still get the same amount of calls
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Thanks for that feedback. I don't know if it has been discussed a lot in this thread (or maybe it should be its own post) but I have a lot of struggles with bet-sizing post flop. I know I'm leaving a lot of value behind.

Any suggestions for ways to think about this? Starting with raise/bet-sizing on the flop when I'm raising for value. I've searched in the forums before but haven't found anything that specific.

Edit: Did just find a thread about this subject here.
 
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JOEBOB69 said:
I've been donked more than twice as much as you this year (417).I don't think i've ever seen this much before.Last year was 140 total,not all that much voulme last year but still a good bit.
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I wonder if it is related to the stakes? I've been mostly a 2NL player (stubbornly insisting on going the freeroll to bankroll route, just to prove that I can). I was fortunate to win a CC FR last week and that gave me just enough to go up to 5NL. I also went from FR to 6max. So far, so good (almost 7 BB/100), but only 4k hands so I know it doesn't really mean much of anything.
 
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