MicroCrushers Thread!!!!!

[Jackle43]

Yeah I saw your April was looking a bit shit, hope it turns around for you.

25nl seems to be the hell level for a lot of us, maybe we should just grind 10 and 16 until we can take shots at 50!

you move up micro?

 

[micromachine]

No but I've played quite a bit of 16nl and 25nl in the past, my roll was over $1K at one point! I found 25nl to be a tough level, quite a bit harder than 10.

 

[pocketehs]

i know im a station but this is just a fold right?

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: $9.55 (VPIP: 20.83, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 26)
CO: $7.62 (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $11.19 (VPIP: 23.33, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 64)
BB: $10.15 (VPIP: 25.96, PFR: 18.03, 3Bet Preflop: 4.38, Hands: 379)
UTG: $10.63 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has J:heart: Q:diamond:

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, fold

Flop: ($1.00, 3 players) 9:diamond: Q:heart: 5:spade:
SB checks, CO bets $0.60, Hero calls $0.60, SB raises to $2.20, fold, fold

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Yes.

 

[Yoshimiii]

A check-raise on that dry board is always a set. Always.

 

[Logan2]

I see where your coming from but I could never play 12 6max lol

Hell I dropped to 4 tables last night because April's been so shit, might keep it up into next month as it felt good, a lot calmer and thoughtful.

My May goal is to play 4 tables of 16nl, not checking results until the 14th, and only then because I will wanna see if I can move back up to 25's ideally I'd wanna try the whole month

One of the issues 4-tabling/6max for me was the little anxious i get because feel moving on slow-mo, and if a down come take lot more time to ride out. Of course playing more than 5 was a challenge for me. Playing 12-6max sounds like Micro could be 24-tabling FR/5nl without trouble.

I think 9K was 12-tabling/6max too and he was playing higher?.

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

I can play 12 if there's enough good tables, normally 12 table 25 and below when I'm looking for profit > improvement.

I play 6-10 at 50 and probably 100 when I shot-take next month.

playing more tables isn't that bad if you're a proven winner at the stake which logan is I think?

 

[Cafeman]

I've officially given up trying to get struggling players to play fewer tables. Well, until next time you catch me telling someone to play 4-6 tables max that is

 

[micromachine]

You are right of course, 4-6 is much better if you are trying to improve but I think 12 tabling will get me out of 5nl quicker and that is my main aim atm. At 10nl I will drop down to 6 or less.

I'm trying to improve quite a basic part of my game right now, which is to sort out my preflop play. I want to call less and 3bet more so my stats are less 23/16, 5% 3bet and more 20/17, 9% 3bet. All the crap like QJo and KTo and suited connectors I used to call a single raise with IP, or call a raise and a call with from the blinds have now become part of my 3bet bluff range (or I just fold them sometimes).

 

[micromachine]

Anyone want to share their 3bet ranges from the different seats? I feel like this is a part of my game that need work!

 

[fletchdad]

I now play a max of 5 tables, since maybe 5-6 months. (Maybe longer)

My game has improved drastically.

Which means I am BE at best, but, hey, better than losing right???

 

[Yoshimiii]

Anyone want to share their 3bet ranges from the different seats? I feel like this is a part of my game that need work!

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/micro-stakes-pl-nl/poker-strategy-ama-1324512/

Scroll down the link until you see my question about 3 betting light and then see the answer that was given by the pro.

"Originally Posted by Yoshimiii
6 max 10nl cash game question:
What hands are best to 3 bet light with PF against certain villains? For example are suited connectors good to 3 bet light PF or would a hand like K5o be better?
Great question."

The purpose of the 3bet is the main determinant of what sort of hands we'll do it with.

1) Build a big pot
2) Take down a lot of dead money
3) Take advantage of a weak range
4) Isolate a (weaker) player

1 is straightforward. We simply want to build the pot.

2 and 3 are very related. The main difference is that 2 generally is against a group of players (eg a few limps from weaker players followed by a raise by an aggressive player). An example for 3 would be a very aggressive player opens from late position when a fish is in the BB.

4 is almost a preventative 3bet. We reraise to get heads up with a weaker player (who is less likely to fold to 3bets), but we are making sure that the other players at the table have to put in significantly more money to continue with the hand as well.

In scenario 1, we will 3bet primarily with conventionally strong hands. Premium pairs, premium big cards.

In scenario 2 or 3 we can have the widest range because we are taking advantage of the situation primarily, so we expect most of our profitability to come from the 3bet preflop or on some form of aggression postflop.

In scenario 4 we actually can have the widest range of hands because a) we are not as vulnerable to some third party getting involved (compared to squeezing where the preflop raiser might say 'hey, this is a squeeze, I'm re-raising this guy back!). However, we expect the weaker player to call often, so we should not really be 3betting with hands we are not comfortable playing with after the flop.



To answer your question about what hands to do this with, well, we first have our ranges. We can be widest in 4, followed by 2/3, and then 1 should be the tightest. Keep in mind the RANGE of hands we do something with does not necessarily represent the FREQUENCY of our actions. Just because I can do something with 100% of hands does not mean I'm doing it every deal.

The good news is that we don't need to balance much yet because this is low stakes, but also because we are inherently applying different ranges to our 3bets. In the plays that take advantage of a situation, we are weighted more towards bluffs. When we want to build a pot with a good hand, we have a value-oriented range. Overall, it balances well enough for these stakes.

As far as what specific hands, I would stay away from K5o types. Those are the types that will flop nothing most of the time, and are vulnerable when they do connect modestly.

Because we do not 3bet a ton of the time (even if it's 10% of the time that's probably something like <5% of all hands dealt), we don't need to use the really ****ty hands like K5o. We want to focus instead on our bluffing range actually being hands that will set us up to semi-bluff postflop. 56ss plays much better across a wider range of flops because its average equity when you put in money is greater than a K5o (what can you hit, top pair?).

 

[OMGITSOVER9K]

I've officially given up trying to get struggling players to play fewer tables. Well, until next time you catch me telling someone to play 4-6 tables max that is

struggling?!

 

[Cafeman]

struggling?!

Shut it, I'm not talking about you!

 

[micromachine]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/micro-stakes-pl-nl/poker-strategy-ama-1324512/

Scroll down the link until you see my question about 3 betting light and then see the answer that was given by the pro.

"Originally Posted by Yoshimiii
6 max 10nl cash game question:
What hands are best to 3 bet light with PF against certain villains? For example are suited connectors good to 3 bet light PF or would a hand like K5o be better?
Great question."

The purpose of the 3bet is the main determinant of what sort of hands we'll do it with.

1) Build a big pot
2) Take down a lot of dead money
3) Take advantage of a weak range
4) Isolate a (weaker) player

1 is straightforward. We simply want to build the pot.

2 and 3 are very related. The main difference is that 2 generally is against a group of players (eg a few limps from weaker players followed by a raise by an aggressive player). An example for 3 would be a very aggressive player opens from late position when a fish is in the BB.

4 is almost a preventative 3bet. We reraise to get heads up with a weaker player (who is less likely to fold to 3bets), but we are making sure that the other players at the table have to put in significantly more money to continue with the hand as well.

In scenario 1, we will 3bet primarily with conventionally strong hands. Premium pairs, premium big cards.

In scenario 2 or 3 we can have the widest range because we are taking advantage of the situation primarily, so we expect most of our profitability to come from the 3bet preflop or on some form of aggression postflop.

In scenario 4 we actually can have the widest range of hands because a) we are not as vulnerable to some third party getting involved (compared to squeezing where the preflop raiser might say 'hey, this is a squeeze, I'm re-raising this guy back!). However, we expect the weaker player to call often, so we should not really be 3betting with hands we are not comfortable playing with after the flop.



To answer your question about what hands to do this with, well, we first have our ranges. We can be widest in 4, followed by 2/3, and then 1 should be the tightest. Keep in mind the RANGE of hands we do something with does not necessarily represent the FREQUENCY of our actions. Just because I can do something with 100% of hands does not mean I'm doing it every deal.

The good news is that we don't need to balance much yet because this is low stakes, but also because we are inherently applying different ranges to our 3bets. In the plays that take advantage of a situation, we are weighted more towards bluffs. When we want to build a pot with a good hand, we have a value-oriented range. Overall, it balances well enough for these stakes.

As far as what specific hands, I would stay away from K5o types. Those are the types that will flop nothing most of the time, and are vulnerable when they do connect modestly.

Because we do not 3bet a ton of the time (even if it's 10% of the time that's probably something like <5% of all hands dealt), we don't need to use the really ****ty hands like K5o. We want to focus instead on our bluffing range actually being hands that will set us up to semi-bluff postflop. 56ss plays much better across a wider range of flops because its average equity when you put in money is greater than a K5o (what can you hit, top pair?).

^^^ Nice reply you got there! Good stuff.

Hoping for help/advice/expansion/correction on my (basic) thoughts on 3betting:

1) Why should we 3bet more OOP then IP? I think this is because when you are OOP you need to 3b bigger to get more folds when you are 3b bluffing, and because you get more value from your premiums as villains are more likely to call IP.

2) What players are good to 3bet bluff? 3bet bluffing is best against the TAGs, then the nits, then the LAGs and lastly the calling station fish. Against those that are unable to fold to 3bets it's better to avoid bluffing and widen your value range.

3) What hands are good to 3b bluff with? Anything you can't profitably call with and is likely to have some equity postflop. I like 3b bluffing with A2s-AJs, K9s-KJs, T9o-KQo, KJo, KTo, QTo and maybe a couple of one gap SCs like J9s and T8s.

4) Why should 3bet a polarised range OOP and a merged range IP? Firstly, I'm not 100% sure what merged range means lol. I think it means a wider value range without many (or any) bluffs. If so I can see why we can widen our value range IP, simply because we have the advantage of position. As for 3betting a polarized range OOP I guess it's because we can get a lot of folds (exploiting a weak range from a BTN open for example) and hope that when they do play back it's when we have a value hand.

5) Why should we 3bet bigger with a raise and multiple callers? To thin the field and get max value when we have a premium and because we need to bet more to get folds when we bluff (although I'm not sure bluffing is such a good idea with multiple opponents).

6) What should be our 3bet size? 3x the raise IP, 4x the raise OOP, up to 5x OOP with multi-way pot when you have a premium or when up against a fish who wont fold regardless of 3b size.

What I think I could do to improve would be to construct ranges for various situations, like BvB, BTN v Blind, BTN v CO and how to modify the ranges based on the openers PFR.

Thanks for reading my essay

edit: also going to post as a cash thread to get more input as I know some of them dont look here.

 

[orangepeeleo]

Shut it, I'm not talking about you!

I play 4 or 5 tables max, I think your making this up!

 

[Cafeman]

I play 4 or 5 tables max, I think your making this up!

MM I haven't really got a range by position, I tend to 3bet/squeeze according to what I want to achieve, whether that be a call/fold or 4bet. So this is obviously villain dependant. That goes for sizing, type of hand I'm 3betting, position, the lot.

Do you feel as though you aren't getting enough value for your premiums? Getting played back at too often? What?

 

[micromachine]

No it's going pretty well for now. My 3bet stat has increased quite a bit recently as I'm finding a lot more spots to 3bet. Just want to check my general thinking about 3bet strat wasn't way off the mark and whether there are things I haven't considered that might be important as I move up

How is your sizing when you squeeze vs a normal 3b? Let's say comparable scenarios - TAG raises from CO, you are in SB but in one scenario a massive donk on the button flats the CO raise.

 

[Yoshimiii]

^^^ Nice reply you got there! Good stuff.

Hoping for help/advice/expansion/correction on my (basic) thoughts on 3betting:

1) Why should we 3bet more OOP then IP? I think this is because when you are OOP you need to 3b bigger to get more folds when you are 3b bluffing, and because you get more value from your premiums as villains are more likely to call IP.

2) What players are good to 3bet bluff? 3bet bluffing is best against the TAGs, then the nits, then the LAGs and lastly the calling station fish. Against those that are unable to fold to 3bets it's better to avoid bluffing and widen your value range.

3) What hands are good to 3b bluff with? Anything you can't profitably call with and is likely to have some equity postflop. I like 3b bluffing with A2s-AJs, K9s-KJs, T9o-KQo, KJo, KTo, QTo and maybe a couple of one gap SCs like J9s and T8s.

4) Why should 3bet a polarised range OOP and a merged range IP? Firstly, I'm not 100% sure what merged range means lol. I think it means a wider value range without many (or any) bluffs. If so I can see why we can widen our value range IP, simply because we have the advantage of position. As for 3betting a polarized range OOP I guess it's because we can get a lot of folds (exploiting a weak range from a BTN open for example) and hope that when they do play back it's when we have a value hand.

5) Why should we 3bet bigger with a raise and multiple callers? To thin the field and get max value when we have a premium and because we need to bet more to get folds when we bluff (although I'm not sure bluffing is such a good idea with multiple opponents).

6) What should be our 3bet size? 3x the raise IP, 4x the raise OOP, up to 5x OOP with multi-way pot when you have a premium or when up against a fish who wont fold regardless of 3b size.

What I think I could do to improve would be to construct ranges for various situations, like BvB, BTN v Blind, BTN v CO and how to modify the ranges based on the openers PFR.

Thanks for reading my essay

edit: also going to post as a cash thread to get more input as I know some of them dont look here.

You can post all these questions on the same thread on 2+2 as in the above link that I posted, but I will try and answer best I can anyway (however 10nl player and not a pro here so don't take my answers word for word).

Here's my thought process:

1. I wouldn't 3 bet bluff OOP as much as IP as, more people call more Ip and you have to raise more pf (I do 3.5x OOP) to make up for being OOP. This needs to be balanced though when you move up stakes.

2. I'm not 3 bet bluffing nits, unless I see that they have a high fold% pre-flop, same goes for fish. Lags (only those who fold enough pre-flop to 3 bets)>Tags>Nits>fish.

3. Only the best value hands against nits as they only open premium hands. A range of depolarized and polarized hands vs TAGs. E.g. K/10 as well as 54s.
Fish I will open up my 3 betting value range to lots of hands, J10+, 66+.
I won't 3 bet them all the time, because I wouldn't want them fighting back or anyone noticing me 3 betting lots.

4. I have no idea why lol

5. 3 bet bluffing with lots of dead money in pot is great, as long as the opener isn't a NIT/fish and the rest of villains can actually fold too.

6. I do 0.5x for being OOP and 3x as standard and 5x+ for multi-way 3 bet (depending how many ppl are in pot).

 

[Cafeman]

How is your sizing when you squeeze vs a normal 3b? Let's say comparable scenarios - TAG raises from CO, you are in SB but in one scenario a massive donk on the button flats the CO raise.

For this, it'll be mostly value obv, so I guess if matey opens to 3bbs and BTN calls, I would make it idk, 13bbs?

 

[micromachine]

OK, so a fair bit bigger then.

So you mostly squeeze with value hands? Interesting, I thought squeeze opportunities were beaut spots for a 3b bluff...but I guess with a fish in the middle he might call with lots of random crap and you could get in trouble postflop.

 

[Cafeman]

The example you gave we were OOP to a fish, so I am probably heavily weighted towards value in that spot yeah.

 

[Yoshimiii]

OK, so a fair bit bigger then.

So you mostly squeeze with value hands? Interesting, I thought squeeze opportunities were beaut spots for a 3b bluff...but I guess with a fish in the middle he might call with lots of random crap and you could get in trouble postflop.

It depends, if you have AA and there has been a raise and a call infront of you, then you don't want to play a multi-way pot with AA so have no other option to squeeze really.

 

[Matt Vaughan]

Thing that make squeezes profitable:
- Inherently weak villain ranges

Obv it's more than that, but we can exploit this a number of ways. If opener folds to 3bets a lot and the caller doesn't, we can have a wide value-squeeze range to exploit the fish.

 

[micromachine]

Friday evening is a goldmine Flatting 5bets with 77 is OK though right?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

BB ($8.84)
UTG ($5.40)
MP ($12.05)
CO ($18.50)
Hero (Button) ($8.69)
SB ($7.18)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, K

2 folds, CO bets $0.15, Hero raises to $0.50, SB raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.30, SB calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.80) 6

, 8

, K

(2 players)
SB bets $2.30, Hero calls $2.30

Turn: ($9.40) 3

(2 players)
SB bets $2.58 (All-In), Hero calls $2.58

River: ($14.56) J

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $14.56 | Rake: $0.60

Results below:
Hero had K

, K

(three of a kind, Kings).
SB had 7

, 7

(one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero won $13.96