i dont think limping is a bad decision at all. however it depends on the strenght of your hand, and also, its important to consider if the table is tight or loose. if it is tight limping with a big pair could have some advantages, cause if you raise, there are more chances, for your opponents to fold the hand however if the table is more loose limping with small pair or speculative hands can give you + ev, in the long run because if you hit a set, straight or flush it will be greatly rewarding for you.
i believe it all depends on the table you are at and how they are reacting. if opponents are always raising your limps and barreling you, then i think it is bad. you could try to balance it by also limping big pairs, but it could make the hand harder to play post flop. instead of limping you could try min raising.
I experimented for a bit having an open limp range strictly from UTG and UTG+1 at 6m. It consisted of KK+/22-66/A6-A9s/AKs. I was having trouble deciding which hands to l/r as a "bluff" (aka not KK+) at the start no one was adjusting well they were isolating and folding like 95% when I l/r (and the other 5% when I did get to see showdown they just had KK+ themselves). Actually given the other hands are hands that benefit from going multiway maybe we should introduce a few more hands we'd fold preflop and open limp them purely for the free money we get from l/r, maybe stuff like 34-67s?
But anyway the point is in the end I realized I was spending a ton of effort/thought on this spot and I wasn't gaining a ton of ev out of it, plus you have to make up for the additional rake you'll pay due to seeing a lot more flops. I just don't think it's worth all the extra trouble when you can just play with no open limping range and still do fine.
But anyway the point is in the end I realized I was spending a ton of effort/thought on this spot and I wasn't gaining a ton of ev out of it, plus you have to make up for the additional rake you'll pay due to seeing a lot more flops. I just don't think it's worth all the extra trouble when you can just play with no open limping range and still do fine.
And what about the fact that you have also saved alot of money by not raising every time you play a hand? Raising pre-flop with a speculative hand, missing the flop as is mostly the case and then following with a C-bet only to find that your opponent is not going anywhere costs alot of money in the long run.JusSumguy said:
Actually, passive play will almost never earn as much as aggression (properly applied). Limping weak hands and inevitably folding is likely to cost you more in the long term than raising with a tighter range and using aggression to your benefit. That kind of passive play becomes a slow but steady spew. You'll get more value with your good hands against weaker players that don't like folding, and you'll narrow their range when they do call. And thanks to fold equity, especially combined with position, you'll often get better hands to fold. Fold equity and initiative are very important aspects of winning poker, and when you limp/call you have neither. You're not narrowing your opponents range, so you're flying blind, and you're giving off a huge tell that you're not in love with your hand.Thinker_145 said:
Losses from passive play like limp/folding is the type of leak you can pretty easily use a tracker report to uncover. That's why trackers are so valuable to the serious poker student. The value isn't from the HUD, it's from the ability to profile yourself and identify leaks like this.
Even with strong hand if you just limp you can still loose... limping is same as sitting-out with one difference you can loose faster and more chips... If you have nuts and you knew that if you raised all would fold than yes keep limping and after decent raise push all-in... But in late tournament there is no place for limping unless you would like to end in the tournament...
I don't agree that open limping is a bad play. It really depends on the composition of the table. If the table is aggressive open limping may cause others to limp as well. Someone in later position may raise and you can re pop it. I try to stay away from blanket statements that open limping is always bad etc, since poker is so situational.
RaisingYa said:
Open limping with any frequency is definitely bad play. But as I said...
dmorris68 said:
However for the typical micro stakes player asking this question, it's best not to appear to be validating what is most likely bad play. It's best to stick to the basic fundamental ABC style of tight aggressive play, which says to open a narrow enough range that you should always be coming in for a raise. Trying to trick or level your opponents into doing something, especially when you're at a basic level yourself, is not going to work often enough to counter the spew that happens when it doesn't. Getting the idea that it's okay to limp "sometimes" will lead most beginning players to do it way too much, so it should generally be discouraged up front.
the limp is the raise of the future 😀 (said the old wise)
Btw depend from the game u playing. I mean, if playing a cash game (what i suppose because of the section) 6max it's pretty horrible limping anything.
We can overlimp some hands on mwp but rarely open limp.
Imho in a 9/10 handed it's not that bad having an open limping range coz of the tighter dynamics.
Btw depend from the game u playing. I mean, if playing a cash game (what i suppose because of the section) 6max it's pretty horrible limping anything.
We can overlimp some hands on mwp but rarely open limp.
Imho in a 9/10 handed it's not that bad having an open limping range coz of the tighter dynamics.
Limping can be a good play, not just to backraise or because you are overlimping with a small pair. It is not usually the best play but it can be the right play. Sometimes your table will ignore raises and raising only servers to enlarger the pot. Other times you have a hand that stands a real good chance of being a winner even versus an existing raise, but that is too weak to withstand a reraise. Mid pairs can be a good example, say JJ or TT utg vs an aggressive or extremely loose table. Raising is standard, but with many players likely to call or reraise, limping with the intention of flating a raise can be profitable. Not to mention the times you flop a high set that no one seees coming. It is a very sneaky play that minimizes risk with hands that are easy to overplay.It can also be profitable to limp in position with any playable hand if your opponents will stack off with top pair pretty frequently.