Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

rhombus · Jan 22, 2016

John A said:
Hehe... well, it was the most recent example I had, although I could pick hundreds of hands on CC here. I started it last week and just finished and published it yesterday.

http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/youre-playing-no-limit-not-limit-holdem/

nice blog. its also what I tend to do with this type of hand from BB if a raiser and caller. If just one raiser Id fold but a raiser and a caller then I Call.

PS may be better to edit the hyperlink from
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/polished-poker-vol-i-study-group-227214//index96.html
to
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...er-vol-i-study-group-227214/post-2813837.html

John A · Jan 22, 2016

rhombus said:
When 4 bet in hand below from late position. In general best line to take
Fold, 5 bet shove, Call and check raise flop when unders or maybe if one over i.e. Q or maybe if you had 99 and T J or Q. CR shove maybe

Villain 33/33 A100% 3B 0.0 Hands only 6
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $18.75 (187.5 bb)
BB: $11.15 (111.5 bb)
UTG: $4.97 (49.7 bb)
MP: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $10.86 (108.6 bb)
BTN: $10.31 (103.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

J

3 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.80, BB folds, BTN raises to $2, Hero calls $1.20

Flop: ($4.10) 5

4

7

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($8.10) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $6.31, Hero folds

Results: $8.10 pot ($0.36 rake)
Final Board: 5

4

7

Q

Hero mucked J

J

and lost (-$4 net)
BTN mucked and won $7.74 ($3.74 net)

Like everything, it depends. But I'm considering my line based on what kind of equity I'm going to have versus their calling or bluffing ranges. In this case, I'd c/jam the flop because there's still several worse hands that can call including top pair and combo draws as well as TT's, some mid pairs that might 4-bet small, and even AK sometimes.

No Brainer · Jan 22, 2016

rhombus said:
When 4 bet in hand below from late position. In general best line to take
Fold, 5 bet shove, Call and check raise flop when unders or maybe if one over i.e. Q or maybe if you had 99 and T J or Q. CR shove maybe

Villain 33/33 A100% 3B 0.0 Hands only 6
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $18.75 (187.5 bb)
BB: $11.15 (111.5 bb)
UTG: $4.97 (49.7 bb)
MP: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $10.86 (108.6 bb)
BTN: $10.31 (103.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

J

3 folds, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $0.80, BB folds, BTN raises to $2, Hero calls $1.20

Flop: ($4.10) 5

4

7

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2, Hero calls $2

Turn: ($8.10) Q

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $6.31, Hero folds

Results: $8.10 pot ($0.36 rake)
Final Board: 5

4

7

Q

Hero mucked J

J

and lost (-$4 net)
BTN mucked and won $7.74 ($3.74 net)[/QUOute]

You need to make a decision here on the flop about continuing with the hand or not. Calling a bet on the flop and folding to a turn bet is just wasting the $2 you put in on the flop.

I don't mind calling the 4 bet because it is small and it is a btn vs blinds scenario. Think I would check/shove a flop with all unders, check/fold a flop with an ace or king and flip a coin if there is a queen...

or3o1990 · Jan 23, 2016

John A said:
... nice. Yeah, his bet sizing didn't make sense. More importantly though you can bet/fold on that dry of a board.

Yeah I just read it. Firstly, let me say I'm flattered that you would use me getting owned for your blog lol. That definitely made me chuckle. I do like the article though.

Also, if you all have run across it yet. Check out my cash thread

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/dont-touch-oreos-cash-game-grind-279941/#post2838165

or3o1990 · Jan 23, 2016

you're suspect son.

rhombus · Jan 23, 2016

John A said:
Hehe... well, it was the most recent example I had, although I could pick hundreds of hands on CC here. I started it last week and just finished and published it yesterday.

http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/youre-playing-no-limit-not-limit-holdem/

regarding the blog, if villains are unknown at what point (odds or stack depth) would you call a small suited connector in BB.

Or does it totaly depend on Villains i.e. if Reg is UTG and Fish call, surely implied odds would be ok if Reg CBET, fish would probably call again ???

rhombus · Jan 23, 2016

Just opened 3 tables of Zoom and 1st hand. not even loaded up HEM so no stats.

When will I ever learn. Cant believe I constantly run into these kinds of hands and pay them off

top pair good kicker bd flush, do you just call the flop reraise and c/f turn if brick hits or just fold to reraise and give benefit of doubt

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/17563144_55F61D4A87

Summary whats he Raising with AA unlikely as would 4Bet so JJ, 66, AJ, A6 then maybe KJs, KQs, QJs. Maybe an aggro with AK, AQ, AT, A9, A8, A7

So im big dog or flip

or3o1990 · Jan 23, 2016

Rhombus, what I took from the blog was this. Put yourself in profitable, +EV situations. We have to calculate our EV not just from our pot odds but from all of the pieces of the puzzle we're trying to put together. So if you for example have a hard time playing OOP then your going to need extra equity from your hand in order to make up for it. Or, if your opponents are super exploitable and fold everything to double barrels then you need no hand equity. But the key is putting all of the pieces together and not weighting everything on pot odds and starting hands.

Figaroo2 · Jan 23, 2016

rhombus said:
Just opened 3 tables of Zoom and 1st hand. not even loaded up HEM so no stats.
When will I ever learn. Cant believe I constantly run into these kinds of hands and pay them off
top pair good kicker bd flush, do you just call the flop reraise and c/f turn if brick hits or just fold to reraise and give benefit of doubt
http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/17563144_55F61D4A87
Summary whats he Raising with AA unlikely as would 4Bet so JJ, 66, AJ, A6 then maybe KJs, KQs, QJs. Maybe an aggro with AK, AQ, AT, A9, A8, A7
So im big dog or flip

Yikes when I saw your reaise on the flop the first thing I thought was what worse going to call and everything that beats us.... calls....
Id call the flop re-raise and see what happens but I'm not putting in another cent if I don't improve.

rhombus · Jan 23, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
Yikes when I saw your reaise on the flop the first thing I thought was what worse going to call and everything that beats us.... calls....
Id call the flop re-raise and see what happens but I'm not putting in another cent if I don't improve.

part I struggle with is If I call the 2.90 raise (another 1.80 to me) there's 7.38 in the pot and I only have 6.30 left.

I guess at up to 25nl maybe its just a fold to the 2.90 raise, but surely once you get up to $100 ($1/$2) then folding to checkraises all the time is going to be so exploitable to observant opponents. Thoughts ????????????

Figaroo2 · Jan 23, 2016

Couldn't work out this guys range

poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $13.91 (139.1 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $14.70 (147 bb)
MP1: $3.91 (39.1 bb)
MP2: $18.05 (180.5 bb)
MP3: $9.58 (95.8 bb) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 13
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $6.04 (60.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q

K

3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.35) 7

T

8

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.35) Q

(2 players)
MP3 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.20, MP3 raises to $2.70, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($6.75) 7

(2 players)
MP3 bets $6.28 and is all-in,
Hero?
I'm thinking J9 or a busted flush

rhombus · Jan 24, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
Couldn't work out this guys range

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $13.91 (139.1 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $14.70 (147 bb)
MP1: $3.91 (39.1 bb)
MP2: $18.05 (180.5 bb)
MP3: $9.58 (95.8 bb) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 13
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $6.04 (60.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q

K

3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.35) 7

T

8

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.35) Q

(2 players)
MP3 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.20, MP3 raises to $2.70, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($6.75) 7

(2 players)
MP3 bets $6.28 and is all-in,
Hero?
I'm thinking J9 or a busted flush

I'm thinking fold to turn 3Bet only 13 hand so I'd give them benefit of doubt.

Although suspicious shove on river unless he thinks you have a good 2nd best hand that could call, Is it worth the risk on your read. That is the question???

fishinthesea · Jan 25, 2016

I don't really like the 3bet with KQo, but it's okay because you're in position. Definitely check flop, but i disagree with the re-raise on the turn. You only have a pair of queens, so I would try to control the pot and get it to showdown. As played would definitely fold river.

Figaroo2 said:
Couldn't work out this guys range

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $13.91 (139.1 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $14.70 (147 bb)
MP1: $3.91 (39.1 bb)
MP2: $18.05 (180.5 bb)
MP3: $9.58 (95.8 bb) - VPIP: 31, PFR: 15, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 13
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $6.04 (60.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q

K

3 folds, MP3 raises to $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.35) 7

T

8

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($1.35) Q

(2 players)
MP3 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.20, MP3 raises to $2.70, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($6.75) 7

(2 players)
MP3 bets $6.28 and is all-in,
Hero?
I'm thinking J9 or a busted flush

John A · Jan 25, 2016

or3o1990 said:
Yeah I just read it. Firstly, let me say I'm flattered that you would use me getting owned for your blog lol. That definitely made me chuckle. I do like the article though.

Also, if you all have run across it yet. Check out my cash thread

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/dont-touch-oreos-cash-game-grind-279941/#post2838165

Yeah, I didn't think you'd care. No one knows anyone on here.

John A · Jan 25, 2016

rhombus said:
regarding the blog, if villains are unknown at what point (odds or stack depth) would you call a small suited connector in BB.

Or does it totaly depend on Villains i.e. if Reg is UTG and Fish call, surely implied odds would be ok if Reg CBET, fish would probably call again ???

The whole point is basically, don't think in terms of odds to justify calls OOP in those spots. Think it terms of opponents and EV. If you have zero reads and multiple people in, fold. Run some filters for yourself and see how you're doing in those spots.

rhombus · Jan 25, 2016

John A said:
The whole point is basically, don't think in terms of odds to justify calls OOP in those spots. Think it terms of opponents and EV. If you have zero reads and multiple people in, fold. Run some filters for yourself and see how you're doing in those spots.

Does this only apply to low suited connector hands, i.e. the one posted 54

So apart from the obvious big pairs and AK, what hands can you call with there just pairs and suited aces and play it for Nuts or nothing especialy if fish in the pot

rhombus · Jan 25, 2016

John A said:
The whole point is basically, don't think in terms of odds to justify calls OOP in those spots. Think it terms of opponents and EV. If you have zero reads and multiple people in, fold. Run some filters for yourself and see how you're doing in those spots.

Just tried to do a filter not sure if done properly but results below
Total Hands filtered 121562

In Blinds with suited cards where there is a raiser and caller or single raiser
5209 Hands bb/100 - 37.14 (-$131.58) (All suited cards except suited Aces)
907 Hands bb/100 -145.52 ( -$44.59) (Just suited Aces)

In Blinds with all Pairs 22-AA where is a raiser and caller or single raiser
1538 Hands 188bb/100 ($173.70) All Pairs
741 Hands -35.69bb/100 ($11.32) 22 - 77

Summary yup you was right all along

especially suited cards
Inconclusive with small pairs lost BB/100 but made small profit proably due to mixed stakes

rhombus · Jan 25, 2016

Daily QUIZ and your quizmaster/donkey/fish is rhombus

4 hands - Fold or Call on River

Hand1 - I know I could have 3bet Pre or even raised especially turn!!
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

SB: $15.04 (150.4 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $13.50 (135 bb)
MP: $32.63 (326.3 bb)
CO: $13.45 (134.5 bb) Only 1 hand 100/100 Ag100%
Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8

8

2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) 6

9

7

(2 players)
CO bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.75) 2

(2 players)
CO bets $1, Hero calls $1

River: ($3.75) 2

(2 players)
CO bets $2, Hero ???

Hand2 Called Pre based on villains stats

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $12.41 (124.1 bb)
BB: $5 (50 bb)
UTG: $12.09 (120.9 bb) 43/29 AG75% 8 hands
Hero (MP): $17.55 (175.5 bb)
CO: $12.66 (126.6 bb)
BTN: $4.61 (46.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J

T

UTG raises to $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.65) 5

J

5

(2 players)
UTG bets $0.41, Hero calls $0.41

Turn: ($1.47) 4

(2 players)
UTG bets $0.93, Hero calls $0.93

River: ($3.33) 8

(2 players)
UTG bets $2.11, Hero ???

Hand3 - thought about folding flop (villain passive preflop but with high 3Bet - confused me small stats so prob best to ignore 3Bet) but decided to call with overs and 2 backdoors
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.70 (107 bb)38/15 Ag 25% 3B 14.3 13 hands
BB: $14.87 (148.7 bb)
UTG: $3 (30 bb)
MP: $10 (100 bb)
CO: $10.26 (102.6 bb)
Hero (BTN): $11.86 (118.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with K

A

3 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, SB raises to $0.90, BB calls $0.80, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.70) Q

3

5

(3 players)
SB bets $1.40, BB folds, Hero calls $1.40

Turn: ($5.50) 3

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($5.50) A

(2 players)
SB bets $2.65, Hero ??? WTF has he got???

Hand4 - Was never going to triple barrel just get extra value on turn from draws and weaker Aces
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $10.23 (102.3 bb) 50/25/ Ag67% 4 hands
BB: $19.34 (193.4 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10 (100 bb)
MP: $5 (50 bb)
CO: $5.32 (53.2 bb)
BTN: $10.99 (109.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A

K

Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BTN calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB folds

Flop: ($1) K

A

5

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.70, BTN folds, SB calls $0.70

Turn: ($2.40) J

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.70, SB calls $1.70

River: ($5.80) T

(2 players)
SB bets $2.80, Hero ??? Either Value from obvious Queen or good bluff. Sizing looked more for value

or3o1990 · Jan 25, 2016

I'm thinking fold, call, call. The last one is close but It's probably a fold. QJ or Q10 of spades makes a lot of sense. It would be an ok spot for him to bluff but He probably has it.

Figaroo2 · Jan 25, 2016

or3o1990 said:
I'm thinking fold, call, call. The last one is close but It's probably a fold. QJ or Q10 of spades makes a lot of sense. It would be an ok spot for him to bluff but He probably has it.

I mostly agree
Hand 1 we know nothing about him this could easily be an overpair. We are check guessing again though, maybe we could min raise this turn? It crossed my mind to shove repping the flush, we've been calling with something. Fold or shove.
Hand 2 is a close one, 8 hands isn't much, we are probably good here a decent amount against his stats, I call.
hand 3, CALL we were calling to hit something or take it away from him so I don't fold when we do connect.
Hand 4. Sigh fold, no way he's leading without a Queen here after the strength we have shown.

daredeviljo · Jan 25, 2016

John A, do you review MTT hands as well?

fishinthesea · Jan 25, 2016

John A said:
The whole point is basically, don't think in terms of odds to justify calls OOP in those spots. Think it terms of opponents and EV. If you have zero reads and multiple people in, fold. Run some filters for yourself and see how you're doing in those spots.

John, it's actually great you bring this point up. I actually ran into this spot playing live at my local casino 1/2/2 5 to call. I was dealt 54hh in the BB. UTG limps 5, but there was a FISH in the SB who opened to 15. I call, utg completes. I felt this was a great spot to call my suited hand as the effective stacks were around $250(125bb) and the fact that I act after the fish every betting round. My image is just a positionally aware TAG, but i guarantee you all, most people don't even notice.

Flop($45) 489hh
Fish leads 25
I call 25
UTG folds.

Turn($85) Tx
Fish leads $35
I flat $35

River($155) Kx
Fish checks
And here I was wondering if I should raise for a bluff or just give up.. Thoughts?

Tulipaneiro · Jan 25, 2016

Nice statistic John

John A · Jan 25, 2016

rhombus said:
Just tried to do a filter not sure if done properly but results below
Total Hands filtered 121562

In Blinds with suited cards where there is a raiser and caller or single raiser
5209 Hands bb/100 - 37.14 (-$131.58) (All suited cards except suited Aces)
907 Hands bb/100 -145.52 ( -$44.59) (Just suited Aces)

In Blinds with all Pairs 22-AA where is a raiser and caller or single raiser
1538 Hands 188bb/100 ($173.70) All Pairs
741 Hands -35.69bb/100 ($11.32) 22 - 77

Summary yup you was right all along especially suited cards
Inconclusive with small pairs lost BB/100 but made small profit proably due to mixed stakes

Sorry if I wasn't specific, I made an assumption I guess. I meant look at SC's in those spots - like 23s-98s and offsuited same. And then I'd just also do one from anything that's not a reasonable hand, so exclude all your typical hands KTs, A9s... Looking more at hands like K9s, Q8s, etc...

John A · Jan 25, 2016

daredeviljo said:
John A, do you review MTT hands as well?

Yes. We talk mostly about cash games here, but we all play MTT's as well.

Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

rhombus

Legend

John A

Poker Zion Coach

No Brainer

Losing keeps me sane

or3o1990

Legend

or3o1990

Legend

rhombus

Legend

rhombus

Legend

Attachments

or3o1990

Legend

Figaroo2

Legend

rhombus

Legend

Figaroo2

Legend

rhombus

Legend

fishinthesea

Rock Star

John A

Poker Zion Coach

John A

Poker Zion Coach

rhombus

Legend

rhombus

Legend

Attachments

rhombus

Legend

or3o1990

Legend

Figaroo2

Legend

daredeviljo

Legend

fishinthesea

Rock Star

Tulipaneiro

Legend

John A

Poker Zion Coach

John A

Poker Zion Coach

About CardsChat

Our Community

Our Site