Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

John A · Mar 3, 2016

MinhANguyen said:
88 I'm fine with iso raising OTB/CO, but not from the SB OOP when we're near closing the action. The BB cannot raise over all the limpers without a strong/premium hand since he will be stuck OOP like we are in a pot that will most likely be multiway. In this exact spot I'm flatting with 22-99 and iso raising TT+.

I meant that we don't want BB raising, not button. I'm not sure what games you're playing, but people raise w/o premium hands from the BB a ton once there's limpers.

Any ways, 5 handed or not, the board is pretty dry and unless you're willing to just c/f the turn, you should just bet an amount you'd be comfortable calling. It's not ideal primarily because this hand should have been raised pre-flop and how this hand played out is perfect example of why it should have been raised.

John A · Mar 3, 2016

rhombus said:
Maximising Value - I run into this spot alot

This one alot easier as eff stack under 1.5 , but how much do you bet here and do you fire the river whatever the card as committed.

What about if deeper i.e. 2 or 3 times pot and also OOP

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
SB: $9.98 (199.6 bb)
BB: $9.30 (186 bb)
UTG: $5.50 (110 bb) 23/17 3B 10.5 AG% 33
MP: $5.29 (105.8 bb)
CO: $5.58 (111.6 bb)
Hero (BTN): $6.91 (138.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q

Q

UTG raises to $0.12, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.43, SB folds, BB calls $0.38, UTG calls $0.31

Flop: ($1.31) 4

3

2

(3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.85, BB folds, UTG calls $0.85

Turn: ($3.01) 7

(2 players)
UTG checks, Hero??????

Stack sizes are a little off when you get MW in a 3-bet pot w/ ~ 100bb effective stacks. But I'd tend to bet about 1/2 pot or even slightly less and then call. Shove all rivers. If it was 2 or 3 it wouldn't really change my sizing. Maybe 3 i bet slightly over 1/2.

John A · Mar 3, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
I don't see what else you can do but fold here. He is repping a T and his preflop range is wide enough to have plenty of those
His river bet sizing is odd. like you say nothing much can call that bet other than the case T or a badly played AK.

Interesting post you made to the new guy as well, thanks for posting that. My tilt profile contains a fair amount of entitlement issues that I need to let go of. It's easy to forget margins are small in this game.

I was actually putting him on quads or a bluff. I talked myself out of a call when my first instinct (and plan for the hand) was to call down. Think about it this way, we have no history, so you'd expect value hands to making normal bet sizes generally speaking. If he has Tx or even QT, what hands do I have that I'm calling with that are worse for that sizing? Just doesn't make any sense. The only thing that makes sense is if AK got there and he somehow thinks I'm checking 3 street w/ Tx. Nothing else makes much sense.

John A · Mar 3, 2016

or3o1990 said:
Did I officially just earn my nit badge or is this a good fold?

iPoker - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 64.65 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (MP+2): 143.75 BB
CO: 109 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 61)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.16, PFR: 10.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 129)
SB: 102.65 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 9.26, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 109)
BB: 60.9 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 7.14, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG: 73.15 BB (VPIP: 21.19, PFR: 5.08, 3Bet Preflop: 2.50, Hands: 119)
UTG+1: 127.95 BB (VPIP: 42.11, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP: 134.1 BB (VPIP: 22.50, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 123)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♦ T♦

fold, fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, MP raises to 20 BB, Hero calls 11 BB

Flop: (41.5 BB, 2 players) K♣ 8♦ 5♥
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: (41.5 BB, 2 players) Q♦
MP bets 27.75 BB, Hero calls 27.75 BB

River: (97 BB, 2 players) 5♦
MP bets 86.35 BB, fold

MP wins 180.35 BB

Yeah, I think this is a good fold. AA isn't betting like this, so you're looking at KK/QQ or bluff. I don't think people are good enough at these stakes to think they can push you of AQ/AK or even try to. So I'd lean towards good fold.

or3o1990 · Mar 3, 2016

I appreciate the feedback. When I saw the diamond my eyes lit up but then I realized it was another 5. I thought about it for like 10 seconds and then let it go.

John A · Mar 3, 2016

Thank you Blovada... had a 40 minute +$485 session (was up $600 in 30, but ran into AA vs AK pre). Felt like the good ol' days. lol

iPoker - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 98.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
MP: 88 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 44.44, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 9)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
BTN: 231.86 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
SB: 83.3 BB (VPIP: 62.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 50.00, Hands: 8)
Hero (BB): 153.25 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J:spade: J:heart:

UTG raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 14 BB, UTG calls 11 BB, MP calls 11 BB, CO calls 11 BB

Flop: (56.5 BB, 4 players) 9:diamond: 8:heart: 4:diamond:
Hero bets 26.25 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 26.25 BB

Turn: (109 BB, 2 players) A:club:
Hero bets 109 BB, CO calls 59.75 BB

River: (228.5 BB, 2 players) 4:spade:

Hero wins 274.75 BB
CO had 9h7c

Figaroo2 · Mar 3, 2016

Ok question for you guys,
Whats the most equity you can have, all in preflop in Holdem?

Figaroo2 · Mar 3, 2016

Nh John, when I do that they always seem to have QQ/KK.

In this hand I think I should have raised at some point prior to the river here, if a flush card comes in it kills the action right?
As played what do we think is the best sizing to raise on the end? We could actually rep a busted flush here could we not and try to make it look bluffy?

Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $12.15 (121.5 bb)
UTG+1: $10.47 (104.7 bb)
UTG+2: $20.38 (203.8 bb) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 15, 3B: 6, AF: 2.4, Hands: 336
MP1: $9.68 (96.8 bb)
MP2: $10 (100 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $22.27 (222.7 bb)
BTN: $25.77 (257.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3

3

UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.35, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.20) K

A

3

(3 players)
UTG+2 bets $0.90, MP3 folds, Hero calls $0.90

Turn: ($3) 9

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($6) 4

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets $1.10, Hero raises to?

John A · Mar 4, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
Nh John, when I do that they always seem to have QQ/KK.

In this hand I think I should have raised at some point prior to the river here, if a flush card comes in it kills the action right?
As played what do we think is the best sizing to raise on the end? We could actually rep a busted flush here could we not and try to make it look bluffy?

Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
BB: $12.15 (121.5 bb)
UTG+1: $10.47 (104.7 bb)
UTG+2: $20.38 (203.8 bb) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 15, 3B: 6, AF: 2.4, Hands: 336
MP1: $9.68 (96.8 bb)
MP2: $10 (100 bb)
MP3: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (CO): $22.27 (222.7 bb)
BTN: $25.77 (257.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3

3

UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to $0.35, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, 3 folds

Flop: ($1.20) K

A

3

(3 players)
UTG+2 bets $0.90, MP3 folds, Hero calls $0.90

Turn: ($3) 9

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

River: ($6) 4

(2 players)
UTG+2 bets $1.10, Hero raises to?

Just raise the flop. If he he Ax+ he's calling. If he doesn't it's unlikely you're getting much more any ways. As played, yes, raise the river $7.

Figaroo2 · Mar 4, 2016

Fired up 8 FR 25nl tables on stars, my first 7 openings all got 3bet and when I did get to see a flop my first 2 cbets were raised. Sigh

Here I regretted just calling pre,
should have just 4bet this looking to gii against the SB whose 3bet and squeeze are both 8%? What to do now on the flop his AF is very aggro.

poker stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $57.46 (229.8 bb) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 14, 3B: 8, AF: 8.0, Hands: 137
BB: $26.94 (107.8 bb)
Hero (UTG+2): $25 (100 bb)
MP1: $31.64 (126.6 bb)
MP2: $24.67 (98.7 bb)
MP3: $31.01 (124 bb) - VPIP: 23, PFR: 20, 3B: 5, AF: 6.0, Hands: 75
CO: $50.72 (202.9 bb)
BTN: $19.96 (79.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q

Q

Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.75, 2 folds, SB raises to $3.25, BB folds, Hero calls $2.50, MP3 calls $2.50

Flop: ($10) 7

J

4

(3 players)
SB bets $6.36
Hero?

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

MinhANguyen said:
I don't really see a reason to slow down. Hands like 88-JJ are pretty much always peeling a turn bet, and also hands like two overs + gutshot (AK and possibly AQ). Flush draws aren't folding either. I don't expect him to have KK+ that often due to preflop action, and sets would probably raise flop due to how many cards could kill his action. In the rare case you get check-raised, I think letting go of QQ is fine.

Dont think I could fold if checkraised, If I bet 1.50 into 3, it would only be 2.70 to Win 8.70

John A said:
Stack sizes are a little off when you get MW in a 3-bet pot w/ ~ 100bb effective stacks. But I'd tend to bet about 1/2 pot or even slightly less and then call. Shove all rivers. If it was 2 or 3 it wouldn't really change my sizing. Maybe 3 i bet slightly over 1/2.

Pot was 3.01 and Villain had 4.22 so just shoved and they folded.

So effectively about 1.4 pot
So ok to Bet 1.50 into 3.00 and Bet the remaining 2.70 or call their shove on River even if A, K or heart

2x Pot
1.50 into 3.00 then would have to bet 4.50 or call a 4.50 shove into 6 on river on all cards

3 x Pot
2.00 then would have to bet 7.00 or call 7.00 shove into 7.00 on river

The 1.4 pot makes sense, maybe even the 2nd one if 2x Pot but not sure about 3rd example if bet 2 on turn and they shoved river for 7 when Ace of Hearts hits

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
Ok question for you guys,
Whats the most equity you can have, all in preflop in Holdem?

89.57% or 100 if you have a big Gun

tried the obvious AA v 27 but then realised 88 blocks the 7 straights

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

John A said:
I put up a top 10 poker strategy book list yesterday. These aren't all from me, it was a community vote.

http://www.acepokersolutions.com/poker-blog/top-10-poker-strategy-books/

Anyone have any other suggestions/comments, let me know.

Definitley agree with the Harrington on Holdem Books although havent read them for a long time. Lots of useful stuff and explains it very well.

Not sure if Elements of Poker can be classed as a Strategy Book

Figaroo2 · Mar 4, 2016

Ok so I drop back down to 10nl and run into this. Anyone doing anything different?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $26.85 (268.5 bb)
UTG+2: $5.48 (54.8 bb)
MP1: $11.31 (113.1 bb)
MP2: $10 (100 bb)
MP3: $16.49 (164.9 bb)
CO: $6.76 (67.6 bb)
BTN: $10.07 (100.7 bb) decent reg 55% steal. 2900 hands ft3bet 67%

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

9

6 folds, BTN raises to $0.22, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.71, BTN calls $0.49

Flop: ($1.47) 4

2

5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.05, BTN calls $1.05

Turn: ($3.57) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.70, BTN calls $1.70

River: ($6.97) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $6.54 and is all-in, BTN calls $6.54

Results: $20.05 pot ($0.90 rake)
Final Board: 4

2

5

3

Q

Hero showed A

9

and lost (-$10 net)
BTN showed 6

7

and won $19.15 ($9.15 net)

John A · Mar 4, 2016

rhombus said:
Pot was 3.01 and Villain had 4.22 so just shoved and they folded.

So effectively about 1.4 pot
So ok to Bet 1.50 into 3.00 and Bet the remaining 2.70 or call their shove on River even if A, K or heart

2x Pot
1.50 into 3.00 then would have to bet 4.50 or call a 4.50 shove into 6 on river on all cards

3 x Pot
2.00 then would have to bet 7.00 or call 7.00 shove into 7.00 on river

The 1.4 pot makes sense, maybe even the 2nd one if 2x Pot but not sure about 3rd example if bet 2 on turn and they shoved river for 7 when Ace of Hearts hits

Yeah, I saw the pot size. My point is, just under bet... why risk losing them. Give them a chance to make an error in a spot where they have a marginal holding. I'll sometimes bet 1/3rd there and make it a super easy river shove that they can't justify folding. Something to consider when stack sizes get awkward.

John A · Mar 4, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
Ok so I drop back down to 10nl and run into this. Anyone doing anything different?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $26.85 (268.5 bb)
UTG+2: $5.48 (54.8 bb)
MP1: $11.31 (113.1 bb)
MP2: $10 (100 bb)
MP3: $16.49 (164.9 bb)
CO: $6.76 (67.6 bb)
BTN: $10.07 (100.7 bb) decent reg 55% steal. 2900 hands ft3bet 67%

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

9

6 folds, BTN raises to $0.22, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.71, BTN calls $0.49

Flop: ($1.47) 4

2

5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.05, BTN calls $1.05

Turn: ($3.57) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.70, BTN calls $1.70

River: ($6.97) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $6.54 and is all-in, BTN calls $6.54

Results: $20.05 pot ($0.90 rake)
Final Board: 4

2

5

3

Q

Hero showed A

9

and lost (-$10 net)
BTN showed 6

7

and won $19.15 ($9.15 net)

Probably c/c the river instead of shove since at best you're splitting mostly. This was you get their busted draw range possibly taking a chance to move you off.

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
Ok so I drop back down to 10nl and run into this. Anyone doing anything different?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (BB): $10 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $26.85 (268.5 bb)
UTG+2: $5.48 (54.8 bb)
MP1: $11.31 (113.1 bb)
MP2: $10 (100 bb)
MP3: $16.49 (164.9 bb)
CO: $6.76 (67.6 bb)
BTN: $10.07 (100.7 bb) decent reg 55% steal. 2900 hands ft3bet 67%

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

9

6 folds, BTN raises to $0.22, SB folds, Hero raises to $0.71, BTN calls $0.49

Flop: ($1.47) 4

2

5

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.05, BTN calls $1.05

Turn: ($3.57) 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.70, BTN calls $1.70

River: ($6.97) Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $6.54 and is all-in, BTN calls $6.54

Results: $20.05 pot ($0.90 rake)
Final Board: 4

2

5

3

Q

Hero showed A

9

and lost (-$10 net)
BTN showed 6

7

and won $19.15 ($9.15 net)

He need to fold to your 3Bet 66% to be profitable. He's 67% and probably alot lower on the Button.

CBet ok with overcard gutshot and blocker club
Turn unsure as what hands is he going to fold, I might have been tempted to check the Turn as the 3bettor you wil have alot of Aces in your Range.
River as you bet the Turn and if prepared to check call a shove then ok to shove yourself. Maybe check/Call or maybe thats results orientated

But overall on Turn, same old question what are they going to call you with, your geting called with better hands but if you check you give him the chance to try and bluff.

PS in the heat of battle I'd have prob played it the same, seems alot easier after the event to analyse

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

John A said:
Yeah, I saw the pot size. My point is, just under bet... why risk losing them. Give them a chance to make an error in a spot where they have a marginal holding. I'll sometimes bet 1/3rd there and make it a super easy river shove that they can't justify folding. Something to consider when stack sizes get awkward.

I agree on the 1.4 bet pot i just need to be braver lol, just seems when I get a good hand, I seem to get bad runouts 4 to the straight/flush etc

Its just when you mentioned on the 3x pot example, to shove the River or call their river shove when obvious draw cards hit i.e. Ace King or the flush card

Figaroo2 · Mar 4, 2016

rhombus said:
89.57% or 100 if you have a big Gun
tried the obvious AA v 27 but then realised 88 blocks the 7 straights

how about 95%
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...garoo2-poker-journey-257038/post-2909755.html

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

Figaroo2 said:
how about 95%
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...garoo2-poker-journey-257038/post-2909755.html

Nice

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

rhombus said:
He need to fold to your 3Bet 66% to be profitable. He's 67% and probably alot lower on the Button.

Think these are right. Fold to 3Bet % needed to breakeven

Example if villain bets 2.5 x BBs and we raise his 3Bet 3.5 Times, If he folds more than 68.63% its an instant profit, hope they help

rhombus · Mar 4, 2016

Playing with the 3Bet Numbers I just realised if we bet multiples of the pot which is easier to calculate we can easily manipulate the Breakeven % of 3 Bets

i.e. If you are in BB and Villain raises 2BBs the Pot will be 3.5, If you then 3Bet the size of the Pot 3.5BBs they need to fold 50%
1.5 Times the pot 60%
2 Times the pot 66.67%
2.5 Times the pot 71.43%

In pic below blinds are 1/2 and villain raises to 5 so the pot is 8.

Also the breakeven% never changes whatever size the villain raises

or3o1990 · Mar 4, 2016

rhombus said:
Playing with the 3Bet Numbers I just realised if we bet multiples of the pot which is easier to calculate we can easily manipulate the Breakeven % of 3 Bets

i.e. If you are in BB and Villain raises 2BBs the Pot will be 3.5, If you then 3Bet the size of the Pot 3.5BBs they need to fold 50%
1.5 Times the pot 60%
2 Times the pot 66.67%
2.5 Times the pot 71.43%

In pic below blinds are 1/2 and villain raises to 5 so the pot is 8.

Also the breakeven% never changes whatever size the villain raises

I'm really diggin this info here. I'm noticing that I'm often around 2.2 the size of the pot.

What is the formula to get these numbers?

Figaroo2 · Mar 5, 2016

rhombus said:
He need to fold to your 3Bet 66% to be profitable. He's 67% and probably alot lower on the Button.
CBet ok with overcard gutshot and blocker club
Turn unsure as what hands is he going to fold, I might have been tempted to check the Turn as the 3bettor you wil have alot of Aces in your Range.
River as you bet the Turn and if prepared to check call a shove then ok to shove yourself. Maybe check/Call or maybe thats results orientated

But overall on Turn, same old question what are they going to call you with, your geting called with better hands but if you check you give him the chance to try and bluff.

PS in the heat of battle I'd have prob played it the same, seems alot easier after the event to analyse

I was expecting to see over pairs 88-QQ I was not expecting to see any 6s at all in his 3bet calling ranges other than a very occasional 66.

rhombus · Mar 5, 2016

or3o1990 said:
I'm really diggin this info here. I'm noticing that I'm often around 2.2 the size of the pot.

What is the formula to get these numbers?

2.2 is 68.75%

To work out the breakeven its
BE = Risk/(Risk + Reward)

In the example in the video below blinds are 1/2 and the Raiser raises to 10
and he 3Bet to 32, so you are risking 32 and the reward is 32
so 32/(32 +13) ~ 32/45 ~71%.

But then I noticed the pot was 13 when they bet, If you 3Bet x2 (26) the BE is 66%
1.5 ~ 60.00% BE
2.0 ~ 66.66% BE
2.2 ~ 68.75%
2.5 ~ 71.4%
3 ~ 75%

Only thing is in picture below if villain raises above a certain size for the x1 x1.2 x1.5 and x1.8 your 3Bet isnt enough to make a min 3Bet

Kind of weird as:
2.6 raise by villain you cant make 1xPot ~ our 3Bet 8.20 min possible 8.40
3.6 raise by villain you cant make 1.2xPot our 3Bet 12.24 min possible 12.40
6.6 raise by villain you cant make 1.5xPot our 3Bet 24.30 min possible 24.40
18.6 raise by villain you cant make 1.8xPot our 3Bet 72.36 min possible 72.40

theres a slight difference when you are in the blinds, but the higher villain raises the closer the BE will be between being and not being in the blinds

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