Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

Sorry.. I know I've been lagging, but I am back now.

Thinking maybe we should go through some big blind defense ranges, since that seems to be all the rage lately.

John A said:

Thinking maybe we should go through some big blind defense ranges, since that seems to be all the rage lately.

Click to expand...

Great idea! I find it still hard to comprehend someone would really know the BB def ranges. I do it with feeling, good days I call more and bad days less

playing bad or just unlucky?

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

Hero (SB): $50 (100 bb)
BB: $103.14 (206.3 bb)
UTG+2: $64.71 (129.4 bb)
MP1: $70.02 (140 bb)
MP2: $54.29 (108.6 bb)VPIP: 100, PFR: 25, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 4
MP3: $50 (100 bb)
CO: $66.48 (133 bb)
BTN: $53.14 (106.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J J
2 folds, MP2 calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, BB folds, MP2 calls $2

Flop: ($5.50) 3 9 T (2 players)
Hero bets $3.25, MP2 calls $3.25

Turn: ($12) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, MP2 raises to $30, Hero folds

Results: $24 pot ($1.20 rake)
Final Board: 3 9 T 6
Hero mucked J J and lost (-$11.75 net)
MP2 mucked and won $22.80 ($11.05 net)

Well this guy is unknown 87 gets there, he has sets also....if he had a draw why not raise the flop?


We get into a hand with a terrorbad aggro fish, he's limp raising and limp calling and donking out and raising flops, all over the place.
Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $24.37 (48.7 bb)VPIP: 36, PFR: 1, 3B: 0, AF: 4.4, Hands: 84
BB: $120.30 (240.6 bb)
UTG+2: $20 (40 bb)
MP1: $78.18 (156.4 bb)
Hero (MP2): $50 (100 bb)
MP3: $58.50 (117 bb)
CO: $59.02 (118 bb)
BTN: $25 (50 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K A
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 3 folds, SB calls $1.25, BB folds

Flop: ($3.50) Q 9 A (2 players)
SB bets $0.50, Hero raises to $2.75, SB calls $2.25

Turn: ($9) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6.75, SB raises to $18, can I really let this go against this guy?? Hero raises to $29.25, SB calls $2.12 and is all-in

River: ($49.24) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results: $49.24 pot ($2.46 rake)
Final Board: Q 9 A 6 7
SB showed 9 A and won $46.78 ($22.41 net)
Hero showed K A and won $0.00 (-$24.37 net)

Villian seen isolating 2-3 times already. I have seen him bluff twice on the river with air already in the first 2 orbits
Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $60.38 (120.8 bb)
BB: $59.77 (119.5 bb)
UTG+2: $25 (50 bb)
MP1: $25.37 (50.7 bb)
MP2: $120.30 (240.6 bb)
MP3: $20 (40 bb)
CO: $52.63 (105.3 bb)VPIP: 28, PFR: 21, 3B: 14, AF: 1.9, Hands: 68
Hero (BTN): $57.15 (114.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q Q
UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, CO calls $4

Flop: ($13.25) T Q J (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $8.12, CO calls $8.12

Turn: ($29.49) 2 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks I suppose I could have bet the turn but AK is deffo in a 3bet calling range here, I'd rather pot control it and hope the board pairs.

River: ($29.49) 8 (2 players)
CO bets $14.74, Hero calls $14.74
I HAVE TO CALL THIS with the busted heart draw/combos smaller sets out there.

Results: $58.97 pot ($2.94 rake)
Final Board: T Q J 2 8
CO showed T 9 and won $56.03 ($27.17 net)
Hero showed Q Q and lost (-$28.86 net)

Same villian as the JJ hand above where I folded the turn, stats have changed somewhat, deffo looking fishy

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $64.47 (128.9 bb)
BB: $69.27 (138.5 bb)
UTG+1: $64.43 (128.9 bb) VPIP: 75, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 1.5, Hands: 16
UTG+2: $51.32 (102.6 bb)
MP1: $59.63 (119.3 bb)
MP2: $52.39 (104.8 bb)
MP3: $27.21 (54.4 bb)
Hero (CO): $50 (100 bb)
BTN: $102.89 (205.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 2 2
UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, 2 folds, BB checks

Flop: ($2.25) 2 K J (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $1.62, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $1.62, MP1 folds

Turn: ($5.49) Q (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $3.61, UTG+1 raises to $7.22, Hero calls $3.61

River: ($19.93) K (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $9.96, Hero raises to $40.66 and is all-in, come on you sod call with your poxy AT/KT UTG+1 folds

Results: $39.85 pot ($1.99 rake)
Final Board: 2 K J Q K
UTG+1 mucked and lost (-$19.30 net)
Hero mucked 2 2 and won $37.86 ($18.56 net)

in light of this should we have folded the JJ hand above?

JJ guy again

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $50 (100 bb)
BB: $21.29 (42.6 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): $72.39 (144.8 bb)
UTG+2: $107.84 (215.7 bb)
MP1: $66.60 (133.2 bb)
MP2: $70.51 (141 bb)
MP3: $34.08 (68.2 bb)
CO: $75.25 (150.5 bb)
BTN: $40.94 (81.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T Q
3 folds, MP2 raises to $1.50, MP3 calls $1.50, CO folds, BTN calls $1.50, SB folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($6.25) 8 8 5 (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets $3.12, MP3 calls $3.12, BTN raises to $10.92, BB calls $10.92, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $18.72, BTN raises to $39.44 and is all-in, BB folds, MP3 calls $13.86 and is all-in

Turn: ($85.45) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($85.45) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $85.45 pot ($4 rake)
Final Board: 8 8 5 5 Q
BB mucked and lost (-$12.42 net)
MP2 mucked and lost (-$4.62 net)
MP3 showed 9 A and lost (-$34.08 net)
BTN showed 5 5 and won $81.45 ($47.37 net)

Now im deffo thinking I should never have folded. what a great table though im hanging around.

versus 55 guy, who is bad
Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $68.88 (137.8 bb)
BB: $65.89 (131.8 bb)
UTG+2: $75.25 (150.5 bb)
MP1: $88.56 (177.1 bb)VPIP: 59, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 34
MP2: $50 (100 bb)
MP3: $20 (40 bb)
Hero (CO): $71.64 (143.3 bb)
BTN: $106.09 (212.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A T
UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 3 folds, MP1 calls $1

Flop: ($3.75) 4 2 7 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $1.87, MP1 calls $1.87

Turn: ($7.49) Q (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $3.74, MP1 calls $3.74

River: ($14.97) 9 (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks

Results: $14.97 pot ($0.74 rake)
Final Board: 4 2 7 Q 9
MP1 showed 7 3 and won $14.23 ($7.12 net)
Hero showed A T and lost (-$7.11 net)

He obviously calls the turn with his flush draw. Who would have fired the river? His wtsd is 27%, less than I expected.

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $50 (100 bb)
Hero (BB): $65.27 (130.5 bb)
UTG+2: $94.13 (188.3 bb)
MP1: $194.62 (389.2 bb)
MP2: $53.68 (107.4 bb)
MP3: $78.23 (156.5 bb)
CO: $74.66 (149.3 bb)
BTN: $47 (94 bb)VPIP: 51, PFR: 6, 3B: 2, AF: 0.8, Hands: 145

Preflop: Hero is BB with A A
3 folds, MP3 raises to $1.43, CO folds, BTN raises to $4.13, SB folds, Hero raises to $65.27 and is all-in...hes never folded pre and his 3bet% is QQ+, MP3 folds, BTN calls $42.87 and is all-in

Flop: ($95.68) 3 9 4 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($95.68) 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($95.68) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $95.68 pot ($4.00 rake)
Final Board: 3 9 4 6 2
Hero showed A A and won $91.68 ($44.68 net)
BTN showed Q Q and lost (-$47 net)

i give up, i cant fold against these fish

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players

SB: $64.35 (128.7 bb)
Hero (BB): $50 (100 bb)
UTG+1: $46.25 (92.5 bb)
UTG+2: $79.12 (158.2 bb)
MP1: $50.75 (101.5 bb)
MP2: $92.04 (184.1 bb)
MP3: $92.43 (184.9 bb)
CO: $165.68 (331.4 bb)
BTN: $50.97 (101.9 bb)VPIP: 76, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 1.3, Hands: 144

Preflop: Hero is BB with A K
5 folds, CO raises to $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, SB folds, Hero raises to $6.25, CO folds, BTN calls $4.75

Flop: ($14.25) 6 8 K (2 players)
Hero bets $10.68, BTN raises to $44.72 and is all-in, Hero calls $33.07 and is all-in

Turn: ($101.75) K (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($101.75) 3 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $101.75 pot ($4.97 rake)
Final Board: 6 8 K K 3
Hero showed A K and lost (-$50 net)
BTN showed 8 K and won $96.78 ($46.78 net)

you wait or a hand you raise, hit the flop and still they beat you....now well stuck

Aww I was sure that was easy double up.

braveslice said:

Great idea! I find it still hard to comprehend someone would really know the BB def ranges. I do it with feeling, good days I call more and bad days less

Click to expand...

Yeah, there can't be anything definitive, but we can talk about some common spots. Like reg opens on the button 2.5 or 3x bb, and what your defend range should generally look like as a baseline.

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

CO: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 34.38, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, hands: 64)
BTN: 121 BB (VPIP: 23.17, PFR: 15.85, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 83)
SB: 107.5 BB (VPIP: 70.37, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
BB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 12.82, PFR: 12.82, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 39)
UTG: 137.5 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 20.63, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 64)
UTG+1: 219 BB (VPIP: 21.86, PFR: 15.58, 3Bet Preflop: 5.84, Hands: 433)
Hero (MP): 133.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9d 9c
fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB

Flop : (19.5 BB, 2 players) 9s 3s 2c
Hero checks, CO bets 14.5 BB, Hero raises to 35 BB, fold

Hero wins 45.5 BB

was it the right play? Or should I have slow played?

blind ranges

Ok i'll be the guinea pig
here are the 3bet and calling ranges I like to think I employ against a standard button open and then the hands I actually used this year from the BB v a CO/BTN/SB raise.
I included small pairs in both fields because I'd 3bet or call with 22-55 depending on the player.
One of my problems is I still flat and reverse float too much in the BB (my vpip is consistently around 18%, when I focus on my blind play I can get this down to 14 easily, although when we have spoken before about this I recall 12% is about optimal is it not?

Alucard said:

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players

CO: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 34.38, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 7.41, Hands: 64)
BTN: 121 BB (VPIP: 23.17, PFR: 15.85, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 83)
SB: 107.5 BB (VPIP: 70.37, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 27)
BB: 100.5 BB (VPIP: 12.82, PFR: 12.82, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 39)
UTG: 137.5 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 20.63, 3Bet Preflop: 4.76, Hands: 64)
UTG+1: 219 BB (VPIP: 21.86, PFR: 15.58, 3Bet Preflop: 5.84, Hands: 433)
Hero (MP): 133.5 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9d 9c
fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6 BB
flop : (19.5 BB, 2 players) 9s 3s 2c
Hero checks, CO bets 14.5 BB, Hero raises to 35 BB, fold
Hero wins 45.5 BB
was it the right play? Or should I have slow played?

Click to expand...

Depends on how aggressive he is for me or whether or not he's a one and done. If I suspected he would fire again on the turn I'd just call on the flop. If he is a passive type then he is more likely to check behind on the turn so then I like the flop CR to see if he is willing to get it in with his overpairs.
This guy looks quite loose and is 3betting fair amount so is maybe less likely to have a strong hand here but might bluff at it again. I'd probably err on letting this type of player continue to fire.
The way you played it ensures you get full value when they do actually have a hand so its never that bad a play.

I had a similar situation this evening where I got raised on the flop by this passive guy in the BB, a raise which is quite unusual coming from a guy with his stats, I'm really suprised and disappointed that he folded.
As I was in position I wondered after if I should have just called as he's pretty much duty bound to fire the turn, not that I'd count on it. My bet is pretty pot comitting, maybe a click back (min raise) might have been better.

Pacific, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 8 Players

SB: $58.11 (116.2 bb)
BB: $50.78 (101.6 bb)VPIP: 18, PFR: 8, 3B: 2, AF: 1.3, Hands: 135
UTG+2: $59.09 (118.2 bb)
MP1: $35.42 (70.8 bb)
MP2: $36.81 (73.6 bb)
MP3: $48.40 (96.8 bb)
CO: $90.98 (182 bb)
Hero (BTN): $51.27 (102.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 6 6
5 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, SB folds, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) J 2 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.12, BB raises to $6.61, Hero raises to $18.96, BB folds

Results: $16.47 pot ($0.82 rake)
Final Board: J 2 6
BB mucked and lost (-$8.11 net)
Hero mucked 6 6 and won $15.65 ($7.54 net)

This is not a hand analysis post.
I went all in with 100BB against more.
But only won 188BB.
So what happened to the other 12BBs?

Is the rake that high? And how do you calculate it?

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 95.5 BB (VPIP: 3.39, PFR: 3.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 59)
UTG+1: 16 BB (VPIP: 23.33, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
MP: 184 BB (VPIP: 63.64, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 33)
CO: 89 BB (VPIP: 20.26, PFR: 14.35, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 232)
BTN: 159.5 BB (VPIP: 39.39, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)
SB: 262.5 BB (VPIP: 15.15, PFR: 6.25, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 33)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7s 9s
fold, fold, MP calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero checks

Flop : (2.5 BB, 2 players) Tc Jc 8h
Hero checks, MP bets 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, MP raises to 7 BB, Hero raises to 15 BB, MP calls 8 BB

Turn : (32.5 BB, 2 players) 7h
Hero checks, MP bets 168 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 84 BB and is all-in

River : (200.5 BB, 2 players) Ah

Hero shows 7s 9s (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 69%, Flop 60%, Turn 77%)

MP shows 7c 3c (One Pair, Sevens)
(Pre 31%, Flop 40%, Turn 23%)

Hero wins 188 BB

That is very nice rake i think lol

Wow, 888 rake at 2NL is 6.25%

http://www.pokerbonus.com/bonus-codes/888-poker/rake-structure/

I suggest you check out rake for the stakes you plan on playing at different sites. 2NL isn't going to be too much harder from one site to the other.

If you had won this pot on ACR you would have won 190bb instead of 188bb.

But if you were to be playing 10NL on 888 it would be the same rake as ACR. This is where factors like rakeback and how tough the player pools is come into play.

IPlay said:

Wow, 888 rake at 2NL is 6.25%

http://www.pokerbonus.com/bonus-codes/888-poker/rake-structure/

I suggest you check out rake for the stakes you plan on playing at different sites. 2NL isn't going to be too much harder from one site to the other.

If you had won this pot on ACR you would have won 190bb instead of 188bb.

But if you were to be playing 10NL on 888 it would be the same rake as ACR. This is where factors like rakeback and how tough the player pools is come into play.

Click to expand...

I play on both sites. Both of them have softer player pools at least at lower stakes.
I never noticed this until now. That's why I asked. Thanks for the info

It's a set mine obviously. But again the villains stats are very weird. Any input on the hand is welcome. Was getting a good price on the river I guess, so called. But the turn calling the check min raise, not so sure about that. He was trying to keep me in the pot without making me fold so I'd say he took the maximum value or at least close to it from the hand.

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (UTG+1): 236.5 BB
MP: 107 BB (VPIP: 20.59, PFR: 14.71, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 70)
MP+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 11.84, PFR: 7.24, 3Bet Preflop: 1.49, Hands: 152)
CO: 171 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
BTN: 65 BB (VPIP: 62.50, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 30.00, Hands: 16)
SB: 102 BB (VPIP: 36.11, PFR: 19.44, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 36)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.49, PFR: 13.24, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 72)
UTG: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ad Ks
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop : (7.5 BB, 2 players) Kd 8s Qc
Hero bets 4 BB, CO calls 4 BB

Turn : (15.5 BB, 2 players) 6s
Hero bets 8 BB, CO raises to 16 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

River : (47.5 BB, 2 players) 3c
Hero checks, CO bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

CO shows 8d 8c (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 55%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)

Hero mucks Ad Ks (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 45%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)

CO wins 73 BB

Alucard said:

It's a set mine obviously. But again the villains stats are very weird. Any input on the hand is welcome. Was getting a good price on the river I guess, so called. But the turn calling the check min raise, not so sure about that. He was trying to keep me in the pot without making me fold so I'd say he took the maximum value or at least close to it from the hand.

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (UTG+1): 236.5 BB
MP: 107 BB (VPIP: 20.59, PFR: 14.71, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 70)
MP+1: 100 BB (VPIP: 11.84, PFR: 7.24, 3Bet Preflop: 1.49, Hands: 152)
CO: 171 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 50)
BTN: 65 BB (VPIP: 62.50, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 30.00, Hands: 16)
SB: 102 BB (VPIP: 36.11, PFR: 19.44, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 36)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 14.49, PFR: 13.24, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 72)
UTG: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 13.33, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ad Ks
fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop : (7.5 BB, 2 players) Kd 8s Qc
Hero bets 4 BB, CO calls 4 BB

Turn : (15.5 BB, 2 players) 6s
Hero bets 8 BB, CO raises to 16 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

River : (47.5 BB, 2 players) 3c
Hero checks, CO bets 15 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

CO shows 8d 8c (Three of a Kind, Eights)
(Pre 55%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)

Hero mucks Ad Ks (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 45%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)

CO wins 73 BB

Click to expand...

Bet more on the flop and turn. I think with these stats, you have to call the turn, although it doesn't look good when you get min raised from a fish. On the river against someone like this, I'd just bet/fold. Se the price you are willing to call, and bet that so you enure you get value from Kx/Qx. You don't have enough info on him to know if he'll be bluffing a draw, so it's better to just bet/fold the same amount you'd check/call.

So I thought we were going to be talking about ranges in the blinds....
Anyone else going to post some stats!? Any comments on my ranges or stats posted above?
I was quite heartened by the fact that I was winning with both my calling and 3bet hands. As the win rate was so much higher when 3betting I'm going to start pushing the envelope here and 3bet more and see what I can get away with, especially against players who only 4bet top premiums and aren't too sticky.

@Fig: "Any comments on my ranges or stats posted above?"

So just to be sure, the upper one is 3bet range? I don't quite get at all, you 3bet ~60% and call 40% of your total range?

The first range image is the range of hands I will look to use to 3bet with. It doesn't mean I'll always 3bet those hands. So I will 3bet with suited aces if I get a suitable spot to do so but often I may just call.
2nd image is the range of hands I will usually just call. I wouldn't for example usually 3bet 97s this is a hand I'd either flat or fold.
The 3rd image from HM2 is the hands I did actually 3bet from the big blind position and the winrate associated with those hand groupings.
The 4th image is the hands I actually did just cold call with and the win rates.

John and I were looking at the ranges on Doug Polk's new training site and Polk was suggesting 3betting a polarised range from the BB which includes small suited hands like 42s and 53s. I don't agree with using those hands for 3betting light as if you get called by say a mid pair you have very little equity compared to having used a hand like A6 which will always have at least 30% chance of out-running a pair.

You can see in the hands used to 3bet I only 3bet suited connectors on 3 occasions. But also I'm performing poorly with my suited aces both when 3betting and calling with them so I need to consider how I'm playing them generally and whether or not I should fold these hands a little more.

My data throws up some unexpected stuff like I'm doing better cold calling with big ace hands than 3betting them. I need to see if I'm over playing my hands when my 3bet gets called.

Anyway I think the discussion should be for us to agree generically what hand ranges are best for 3betting and calling and why and then each of us can dig deeper into our own data and tweak as we see fit.

"My data throws up some unexpected stuff like I'm doing better cold calling with big ace hands than 3betting them."

Mine are:
BB Call AK, AQs 468bb/100, 21 hands
BB 3bet AK, AQs 362bb/100, 30 hands

@Fig comments, bear with me =)

I don’t see reason to 3bet AJs, ATs,ATo, 99 to 77. Well against fish I can. These Ax hands are dominating opponent raising range but are behind his call 3bet Ax range. Well we can argue that if BU has time to adapt to active 3betting we can include AJ there, but we would really need to know he defends AT and maybe even A9 vs 3bet to do so. I don’t understand the logic for 3betting medium pairs?

Q9s and Q8s are very hard hands to 3bet maybe JTo, QJo, QTo instead, if you are not calling these.

A5s to A2s are more powerfull than A9s to A6s. I would guess the same goes with Axo too? Your bottom Axo range is empty though. Generally any Ax should have positive equity just by calling, I mean A2o has 46% equity vs 40% range, so an argument can be made that there is no need to 3bet Ax type hands. Your Axs are making unprofit that is bad luck or some kind of leak.

Most guides I have read advice to defend around 30 to 40% vs BU open, given BU is good tag. 12% sounds awfully tight and also your ranges are quite far from this. My range is far from this too being around 20% VPIP vs BU. My total VIP against 6max table is 22.3% I guess 12% is against the whole table full ring? Is this John’s advice then?

My VPIP in % per hand BU vs world 6max


My 3bet vs the world 6max


Oh and it seems I lose most vs BU open =) So next date is from that.

You make some good points. Over what time period did you look at?
I think it's important to vary your 3bet ranges depending on whom you are up against player type wise. I'm quite happy to admit I chase fishy tables hence im more often and to be found on full ring tabs. So against fish I just keep my 3bet range linear so I'm betting for value most of the time which is why I'll 3bet hands like AJs downwards and mid pairs. I'll polarise more against the regs. Despite the recommended ranges in the polished poker book I don't like using many suited Queens or jacks for polarising, I've just never been comfortable with playing those hands.
re the small Ax, I think I should have included them in my calling ranges I knocked it out pretty quickly tbh.
So yeah I need to look at my vpip from the blinds in terms of should I be widening my ranges against co/btn steals.
I'm fairly sure the 12% figure is the optimal Cold call rate against the whole table at full ring and need to consider and know what is optimal just against late position opens.
In your 3bet hand spread I notice you are not 3betting 33 44 I can definitely recommend doing this my return on those hands is better when I 3bet them. If you are lucky enough to hit your set you will often get fully paid off when the board runs low and they have TT-KK the sort of hands that call you down when you try and force through AK on a low runout 3bet pot.