Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

rhombus · Aug 27, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
I added it into the report, mine looks in the desired range
Rhom your preflop stats are still great, iron out those post flop errors and you would be crushing.
this postflop stuff might be useful
http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/2011/PLUGGING+LEAKS+-+THE+FUZZ+RULE+-+FOLDING+TO+RAISES

thanks for the link I did the first part
(Load the report: Plugging Leaks 03 - Flop Hand Strength. )see pic but then [FONT=HelveticaNeue-Bold, 'Helvetica Neue Bold', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]
Now, click on the Filter button and then choose "Load" and load up the "Calling Flop CBet Raise" filter. couldnt find that part unless its FLop Bet call see 2nd picture
[/FONT]

rhombus · Aug 27, 2015

OMG just ran the 1st part on all my hands including PLO and down nearly $7K for the Top Pair Weak Kicker or Worse - Weak /NoDraw

Figaroo2 · Aug 27, 2015

Rhom com

rhombus said:
OMG just ran the 1st part on all my hands including PLO and down nearly $7K for the Top Pair Weak Kicker or Worse - Weak /NoDraw

My comparison, this is my hands for this year. Clearly I don't think we can compare these if you have a large amount of PLO. One of the interesting figures is WTSD with the tpwk hands where mine is lower by 4% showing I'm folding these hands before the river more than you. Over thousands of hands that is a considerable difference but I'm not sure if this is relevant with if you have a lot of PLO hands. I don't play much PLO but relative final hand strengths are higher in PLO than holdem are they not so even less reason to be getting to showdown with tpwk no draw
I think I need to break down the tpwk or worse down a bit more to see where the leaks are...but less cold calling preflop, less calling 3bets and a bit more 4 betting instead will clearly help avoid getting into these spots in the first place.

Just as an aside I have just run all of the common filters over my stats and put the findings in my thread (link in my signature below). I needed to see these, I can't understand why I haven't looked at these before. If I needed the evidence that aggression works and passivity doesn't its there in massively obvious figures.

rhombus · Aug 27, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
My comparison, this is my hands for this year. Clearly I don't think we can compare these if you have a large amount of PLO. One of the interesting figures is WTSD with the tpwk hands where mine is lower by 4% showing I'm folding these hands before the river more than you. Over thousands of hands that is a considerable difference but I'm not sure if this is relevant with if you have a lot of PLO hands. I don't play much PLO but relative final hand strengths are higher in PLO than holdem are they not so even less reason to be getting to showdown with tpwk no draw
I think I need to break down the tpwk or worse down a bit more to see where the leaks are...but less cold calling preflop, less calling 3bets and a bit more 4 betting instead will clearly help avoid getting into these spots in the first place.

Just as an aside I have just run all of the common filters over my stats and put the findings in my thread (link in my signature below). I needed to see these, I can't understand why I haven't looked at these before. If I needed the evidence that aggression works and passivity doesn't its there in massively obvious figures.

the 1st pic I posted was just NLHE for this year.

SO the top figure with all the losses are those the hands we need to fold earlier or try to get to cheap showdown with the top pair hands with weak kickr and no draw

Figaroo2 · Aug 27, 2015

rhombus said:
the 1st pic I posted was just NLHE for this year.
SO the top figure with all the losses are those the hands we need to fold earlier or try to get to cheap showdown with the top pair hands with weak kickr and no draw

Id say yes almost certainly, if I were you I'd review a good selection of these hands where you have got to showdown to see where you could/should have got away from the hand. You are showing wtsd 27% in this section which looks too high for these sorts of hands.

Figaroo2 · Aug 28, 2015

Is this happening?

John A said:
On a small personal side note, I'm going to be playing a lot more again. I've just been donking around working on business stuff the last 1.5 or so, but I plan to get into high stakes games again, and I'd like to be playing against the best players once again. So I'm making some personal goals for this next year to push myself once again.

Is this happening? Are you going to post some hands/stats?
I'd consider paying per 30min/hour to sweat you on skype whilst you are playing if you verbalize your decision making.

John A · Aug 28, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
Is this happening? Are you going to post some hands/stats?
I'd consider paying per 30min/hour to sweat you on skype whilst you are playing if you verbalize your decision making.

Yeah, but I'm just starting to build it now. I haven't gotten many hands in yet. I was going to put more volume in once the summer was over. My wife being a teacher, and having 2 kids, there's just a lot going on during the summer. I think I only have about 4k hands this month so far. I'll post what I have though.

John A · Aug 28, 2015

I'm not very good with PT4. I guess I need to build a report and display better stats... but you get the jist.

I'll try and get a better report... Agg is 4.16. Some of it is testing for bovada card catcher (5nl, 25nl hu's). Obviously I suck at those games. I have a long way to go to get back into the high stakes games. But after this summer, I'll get a much better volume in and move up quick.

or3o1990 · Aug 30, 2015

I apologize that I've been a ghost in this thread recently. I've just been working through some personal stuff and had to take a little time off from the grind. I'm back at it now though!

What do you guys think about this fold? I felt at best I'd be calling for a chop on the end here..

PokerStars - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 476.6 BB
CO: 98.5 BB
BTN: 106 BB
Hero (SB): 99 BB
BB: 61 BB
UTG: 178.15 BB
UTG+1: 79.65 BB
MP: 233.4 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:spade: K:club:

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, MP calls 3 BB, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (13 BB, 4 players) 7:heart: K:spade: Q:club:
Hero checks, UTG bets 8.5 BB, MP calls 8.5 BB, MP+1 calls 8.5 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB

Turn: (47 BB, 4 players) 6:club:
Hero checks, UTG bets 23.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 23.5 BB

River: (94 BB, 2 players) 5:spade:
Hero checks, UTG bets 82 BB, fold

UTG wins 91 BB

Figaroo2 · Aug 30, 2015

If you think he's only doing this with AA AK KK QQ then good fold
I like the preflop call, too deep to squeeze and play a bloated pot oop especially if we miss the flop. If it were 100bb I'd seriously think about a large squeeze for value.
But as we don't have reads/stats as to how loose/tight he is then its difficult to comment further.

or3o1990 · Aug 30, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
If you think he's only doing this with AA AK KK QQ then good fold
I like the preflop call, too deep to squeeze and play a bloated pot oop especially if we miss the flop. If it were 100bb I'd seriously think about a large squeeze for value.
But as we don't have reads/stats as to how loose/tight he is then its difficult to comment further.

I didn't feel like my pair was the best hand, that's for sure..

What do mean exactly if it were 100? Aside from reads what would make you more inclined to squeeze here?

Figaroo2 · Aug 30, 2015

or3o1990 said:
I didn't feel like my pair was the best hand, that's for sure..
What do mean exactly if it were 100? Aside from reads what would make you more inclined to squeeze here?

The fact that utg is deep means he will call more often here and that significantly reduces our fold equity. At 100bb calling a big squeeze has pot commitment considerations on much earlier streets and there is less time for the hand to develop for more speculative UTG holdings.
I think your preflop call was correct here against what is likely to be a strong opening range. I would be squeezing if UTG was in anyway loose and everyone was 100bb or less deep.
A squeeze here would obviously look very strong and if the money started to go in AK isn't in great shape against QQ+ AK so a call is best here I think....It all of course depends on what sort of player UTG is.

or3o1990 · Aug 31, 2015

OK, I understand what you were saying now about the stack sizes.

John A · Aug 31, 2015

or3o1990 said:
I apologize that I've been a ghost in this thread recently. I've just been working through some personal stuff and had to take a little time off from the grind. I'm back at it now though!

What do you guys think about this fold? I felt at best I'd be calling for a chop on the end here..

PokerStars - $1 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 476.6 BB
CO: 98.5 BB
BTN: 106 BB
Hero (SB): 99 BB
BB: 61 BB
UTG: 178.15 BB
UTG+1: 79.65 BB
MP: 233.4 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♠ K♣

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, MP calls 3 BB, MP+1 calls 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.5 BB, fold

Flop: (13 BB, 4 players) 7♥ K♠ Q♣
Hero checks, UTG bets 8.5 BB, MP calls 8.5 BB, MP+1 calls 8.5 BB, Hero calls 8.5 BB

Turn: (47 BB, 4 players) 6♣
Hero checks, UTG bets 23.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 23.5 BB

River: (94 BB, 2 players) 5♠
Hero checks, UTG bets 82 BB, fold

UTG wins 91 BB

Welcome back. I hope the personal stuff worked itself out ok.

It's a little difficult w/ these under repped hands on a site like Bovada. You have people doing a lot of dumb bluffs when you show weakness. But to begin with, I wouldn't just call MW like this. The only time I'm calling 100bbs deep in a spot like this is if I have history with someone. And I'm assuming you don't here, so it just puts you in a bad spot the whole time. It's hard for him to put you on AK because most people won't just call here. The only reasonable hand he could put you on is KQ and it's such a small part of your range. Especially when you check the river.

The other thing is The flop bet sizing MW w/ any set or AA seems a little small on a site like Bovada. As played, I don't mind the flop call, but I'm likely leading the turn and calling it off.

Figaroo2 · Sep 1, 2015

One hand to test the grey matter. I posted it in the open forum for a wider input. But I would welcome comments from the persons in this thread as well.
I tanked this hand for ages, very complex flop spot with a monster draw against 4 players and semi deep.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...he-full-ring-very-complex-272454/#post2720093

Figaroo2 · Sep 1, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
One hand to test the grey matter. I posted it in the open forum for a wider input. But I would welcome comments from the persons in this thread as well.
I tanked this hand for ages, very complex flop spot with a monster draw against 4 players and semi deep.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cas...he-full-ring-very-complex-272454/#post2720093

Just playing around with some ranges for the above hand suggests a shove may be in order with likely 40-45% equity.
The CO is going to to fairly wide here, unless he has a set he can largely be ignored. 10-15% equity
The maniac SB could have anything, to be kind I've given him top 15% of hands.
Its actually the passive thats the problem, he should have a much tighter range maybe 88+ to QQ, AK AQs, can't see AA KK they should raise, but he is passive so I wouldn't rule them out. BB looks from his stats like he has some preflop game, BB overcalling preflop and shoving brings TT+ to the fore. We are still almost 50% against TT+
So if we shove do we get called by the maniac? There has to be a chance and we are well ahead of his ranges.
So we are shoving right?

John A · Sep 5, 2015

Sorry, I'll take a look at it here soon. It looks just like a simple math issue vs ranges. Really most of it comes down to if you call, how often do we expect fish to shove the turn, making it a perfect math issue since you have a sidepot.

John A · Sep 8, 2015

rhombus said:
OMG just ran the 1st part on all my hands including PLO and down nearly $7K for the Top Pair Weak Kicker or Worse - Weak /NoDraw

I didn't address this, but this isn't horrible.

Ahhh... so now that summer is over, I have some ideas on how to proceed and continue to push the study a little bit. I've been super busy with moving, family vacation stuff, so my time has been very limited. But I'm going to be playing more, and want to get a very active study group rolling again.

I know I still have a free outstanding coaching session. Maybe if it's ok we can share some of that. Perhaps setup some group sweats and things like that as well.

Figaroo2 · Sep 9, 2015

Never done a group sweat , sounds awesome. +1

MAINCLIENT · Sep 9, 2015

Hands, Hands, and more hands

Good evening. I am very interested in this study. I'm currently in a cash game. According to my analysis, some of these players are very tight at times and some are very loose. The players that I play with. I need some to polish on my reading, putting players on specific hands, managing my chip stack on how I need to invest preflop.

John A · Sep 9, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
Never done a group sweat , sounds awesome. +1

The only trick will be time coordination, but they are handy and useful. Group Skype call while we watch someone and play poker.

I'm down for this next Tuesday. Maybe somewhere between 11am - 3pm PST? Anyone else have any suggestions? The more people the better also.

John A · Sep 9, 2015

MAINCLIENT said:
Good evening. I am very interested in this study. I'm currently in a cash game. According to my analysis, some of these players are very tight at times and some are very loose. The players that I play with. I need some to polish on my reading, putting players on specific hands, managing my chip stack on how I need to invest preflop.

Welcome. Jump right in. You can get the free e-book below. Post hands, and get involved in the discussion. Look forward to speaking more.

rhombus · Sep 9, 2015

Figaroo2 said:
Never done a group sweat , sounds awesome. +1

Never used skype before do u need a mic and other stuff.

Havent played much cash lately as my HUD is screwed at the moment

John A · Sep 9, 2015

rhombus said:
Never used skype before do u need a mic and other stuff.

Havent played much cash lately as my HUD is screwed at the moment

I knew there was someone left who hasn't used Skype... it was you all along huh?

Yes, you need a mic.

What's wrong with your HUD?

Figaroo2 · Sep 9, 2015

rhombus said:
Never used skype before do u need a mic and other stuff.
Havent played much cash lately as my HUD is screwed at the moment

Depends if you are using a laptop or desktop. Most laptops have a built in cam and mic and it all hooks up pretty much automatically when on skype. If you have a desk top you would need to add a webcam. I have a webcam on my desktop that simply plugs in via a USB port, its been a while since I used it I'm not sure if it has a built in microphone I would expect it to.
Once you are set up let me know and i'll PM you my skype address and can gently ease you into a sweat. Its not difficult...
MottoTom and I were sweating some sessions but he seems to have gone underground recently.
Via skype we might be able to help you with your HUD issues as well

Polished Poker Vol. I Study Group

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