When should you fold KK preflop?

ronholes7059 · Aug 12, 2005

I saw a post about folding AA preflop, I was just curious as to when some of you fold KK preflop. I know it is really hard to drop this hand preflop, I have never done it personally just because the stakes I was playing weren't that great. Any stories about dropping the cowboys?

t1riel · Aug 12, 2005

I never folded KK. I think it is worth even going all in with unless it is early in the tournament.:beerglass

chicubs1616 · Aug 12, 2005

When should you fold KK preflop?

The answer is simple...if you KNOW for a fact that your opponent has pocket aces.

You want KK up against every other hand...

StackThemUp · Aug 13, 2005

chicubs1616 said:
When should you fold KK preflop?

The answer is simple...if you KNOW for a fact that your opponent has pocket aces.

You want KK up against every other hand...

I hate to sound argumentative but when do you know for a fact that someone has AA? You can't unless you have x ray vision. I have folded KK preflop when there were 3 to go til the money in the 250k on party poker not long ago, i had just below avg,and 2 other people were all in so to me the gamble wasn't worth it,and i'm glad i did as someone flopped a set.

dude · Aug 13, 2005

why would you fold KK preflop? a pair of 2's is even better preflop than ak suited for instance, and where did you read anyone who folded AA preflop? That's just idiot...

StackThemUp · Aug 13, 2005

You would fold KK preflop for the above reasons i stated in my post,and i would most certainly fold 22 as its only a coin flip to over cards...you never want a coin flip when big money is at stake or making it to a final table etc at least i don't.

diabloblanco · Aug 13, 2005

Is this post serious? Where on gods earth did you see a post where someone folded AA pre-flop? Please link me to it so I can flame whomever that is off the planet. And for all that didn't understand chicubs' post, please go back an re-read it. It is called sarcasm. He was simply saying that unless you positively know that your opponent has AA, you play KK like the monster that it is. For example, if you are 100% positive that your opponent picks his nose with his right pinky and wipes it on his shirtfrom left to right when he has pocket Aces, fold. Other than that, man up and play your Kings.
-diablo-

jeterkid925 · Aug 13, 2005

I'd fold it mabey If i thought the other guy has Slick, or if he had aces

StackThemUp · Aug 13, 2005

Man up and play your kings?
I'm nearly rolling off my chair as i type this!
So you'd play your KK if for example there were 5 players left and you were short stack by some 10,000. Two others are all in against the chip leader and you look down and find KK. The prize money for 5th is $500,4th $700 and 3rd $1000. I know i'd fold every day of the week. You have to look at your EV and what you gain from calling? Even if you win,you'd still be a mile behind the two chip leaders. I'd let the chip leader take at least one if not 2 out and increase my prize money by $500. Its not always about the cards..you need to use your brain aswell,AND to add coal to the fire i'd fold AA as AA against 3 others is roughly only 63%. I'm more interested in the money than moving up one in chip count!!

tenbob · Aug 13, 2005

Sorry folks, I could NEVER fold AA EVER EVER EVER, and if i EVER DO I really do think I should never play poker, I see there is a thread about snap, I might just go and read that just in case.

As for KK, I've only ever folded it once, in a live game when i seen the newbies hand shaking as he went all in, and true to form he had the Aces. That felt better than seing the KK in the first place.

Jackfivex · Aug 13, 2005

I never fold K's preflop.
Consider the chances of someone else having pocket aces?? very slim.
Play the cards always!!!
I have rarely lost on pocket K's..

Crippler450 · Aug 13, 2005

Always play pocket kings. They seem to beat my pocket aces 5/6 times :-\ (though i would NEVER fold either pre-flop)

Last time I played, I had AA and went all in pre-flop. I was called by KK and the flop was A K 5 rainbow. The perfect flop! Now he cant even beat me with a straight! The turn was another king...beat by quads.

ronholes7059 · Aug 13, 2005

I saw a post about folding AA preflop on this forum somewhere, I'll try and find the thread

here is the thread about folding AA
Should You...Could You.......Would You? - Poker Forums

Jon_UK · Aug 13, 2005

There was a thread about folding AA, but the [sensible] consensus that was reached, if I recall, was that you could only fold AA before the flop in extremely specialised circumstances, ie. never in a cash game, and only in tournament situations where you're just outside the money positions and 3 or 4 people have gone all in before you.

Obviously such situations will be extremely rare. Situations where you should fold KK will be almost equally rare, but I have played in cash games where there are a few players who I've played with enough to know you can only sanely put them on AA if they raise all in pre-flop. Against these guys I might put down KK pre-flop.

grimjack808 · Aug 14, 2005

I always fold KK in a tourney where there is crazy all in action (3 or more people).

The object is to win the tourney, not just the hand. Any hand really only has its strongest advantage when heads up. Up against multiple opponants odds are one or more of them will hit something like 2 pair etc. Big pairs tend to win small pots and lose big ones.

Usually the risk is too big to justify this. Why let it damage your stack unnecessarily and ruin your tourney hopes?

Then again if you are short stacked, who cares. Go for it.

diabloblanco · Aug 14, 2005

Wow...just wow.

Mixter X · Aug 14, 2005

Ditto to what he said!
i cant believe the responses of some people in this thread.
I wouldn't fold KK preflop unless it was in a tourny situation as mentioned above. as for folding pocket rockets... i have never done and probably never will.

zabber · Aug 14, 2005

never ever fold!!!

JonSherwood · Aug 14, 2005

StackThemUp said:
Man up and play your kings?
I'm nearly rolling off my chair as i type this!
So you'd play your KK if for example there were 5 players left and you were short stack by some 10,000. Two others are all in against the chip leader and you look down and find KK. The prize money for 5th is $500,4th $700 and 3rd $1000. I know i'd fold every day of the week. You have to look at your EV and what you gain from calling? Even if you win,you'd still be a mile behind the two chip leaders. I'd let the chip leader take at least one if not 2 out and increase my prize money by $500. Its not always about the cards..you need to use your brain aswell,AND to add coal to the fire i'd fold AA as AA against 3 others is roughly only 63%. I'm more interested in the money than moving up one in chip count!!

StackEmUp is making a great point! Listen to him! I'd do the same in that position, and I have before...If people are all in and youare going to move up in prize money majorly if they go out, fold 'em

Jon

PainKilla · Aug 14, 2005

KK or AA means ALL IN to me :rock: Wel lsometimes I like to slow play them to... try to suck more money out of people!!!

lightning36 · Aug 14, 2005

You ALWAYS have to consider the situation. The times when you fold AA or KK preflop are rare, but they exist. I have done it, and it is painful. However, folding helped accomplish my goal with nearly 100% probability instead of taking a foolish chance. If you are on the bubble in a tourney, you have to look beyond the two cards in your hands.

Eytch · Aug 14, 2005

I think that was well said lightning!! I would never fold AA or KK unless I was in a tourney on the bubble. Thats just me now I have heard of them being folded just because it didnt feel right. I dont understand that. I really try to slow play KK myself depending on the postion.

XXIII · Aug 14, 2005

I'd never fold AA or KK or AK(suited or not*) or QQ preflop

*some people here say they'd fold off suit. Yeah ok sure you keep folding AK preflop or w/e I'll play them and lets see who does better

diabloblanco · Aug 14, 2005

Anyone saying to fold KK pre-flop or especially AA, in a tourney situation is playing scared. You play not to lose and you'll never win. I watched a wsop episode some time ago when Phil Hellmuth (arguably the best NLHE tournament player ever) folded KK preflop because he had a solid read that he was up against Aces (which he was correct) and when he did it he said, "I have only folded this hand pre-flop twice, EVER." Are you teling me that you guys method of moving up in the money or not busting on the bubble is more sound than the strategy used by him? Do you think he would have given a rats ass about the bubble or the 4th or 5th place finish? NO. He plays to win, which is what you should be doing also. If you fold KK in this situation you're most likely letting an opportunity to build your stack slip by without capitalizing on it. In a tournament you simply can't afford not to capitalize at every given opportunity. Two times the man has folded KK pre flop out of the thousands and thousands of times he has held the hand. Who knows best?

RammerJammer · Aug 14, 2005

The key phrase here is "pre-flop". I think all of us have folded AA or KK on the turn or river when faced with sets, straights, flushes, or boats. I've even folded when I strongly suspected someone had caught two smaller pairs. But folding bullets or cowboys before the flop? No way. Play them the way they deserve to be played...hard! All the other dialogue about scenarios to the contrary is just mental masturbation.

XXIII said:
I'd never fold AA or KK or AK(suited or not*) or QQ preflop.

All due respect, but if you play QQ pre-flop with the same weight that you play Aces or Kings, you're gonna get busted out...a lot.

When should you fold KK preflop?

ronholes7059

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t1riel

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chicubs1616

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StackThemUp

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dude

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