Slot RNG vs. Poker RNG: two completely different systems

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Brigistul

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The RNG used in slot machines does NOT work like the RNG used in online poker. This is a huge misconception.
Poker RNG , uniform distribution, no memory.
Slot RNG , weighted distribution, with symbols that have different probabilities
In slot machines, every symbol has a mathematical weight. There are no “equal chances” on the reels.
If you have a different technical explanation for the difference between uniform distribution (poker) and weighted distribution (slots), I’m curious to hear it. Let’s see arguments, not impressions.
The most dangerous players for a casino are:

– those who play only +EV promotions – those who cash out immediately after a big win – those who don’t come back to ‘give it back’ – those who play only when the jackpot is +EV – those who use strict bankroll management!
EV means Expected Value .It’s one of the most important concepts in gambling, poker, and sports betting.EV = the mathematical average of the long‑term outcome. It doesn’t tell you what happens in a single session, but what happens if you repeat the same situation thousands of times.
 
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So there's random and there is random.. interesting🤣

My impression is an RNG will be just as random in poker as it is in slots.
I'm not sure what you've read to come to these conclusions - links to related/supporting material would be nice as ever...
 
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monkeytilter said:
So there's random and there is random.. interesting🤣

My impression is an RNG will be just as random in poker as it is in slots.
I'm not sure what you've read to come to these conclusions - links to related/supporting material would be nice as ever...
Click to expand...
“It’s not the same type of randomness because the games have different purposes. Poker uses a uniform distribution (like a real deck). Slots use a weighted distribution to maintain the RTP. The RNG is just the engine — the game decides what distribution it produces. If you have another explanation, I’m curious to hear it.
 
Brigistul said:
“It’s not the same type of randomness because the games have different purposes. Poker uses a uniform distribution (like a real deck). Slots use a weighted distribution to maintain the RTP. The RNG is just the engine — the game decides what distribution it produces. If you have another explanation, I’m curious to hear it.
Click to expand...
"Slots use a weighted distribution to maintain the RTP."
That does not mean the RNG is not random, or a "different type" of random. RNG is random number generator - period. Anything else it's not an RNG.
 
Brigistul said:
El generador de números aleatorios (RNG) que se usa en las máquinas tragamonedas NO funciona igual que el RNG que se usa en el póker en línea. Esto es un gran error de concepto.
Generador de números aleatorios para póker, distribución uniforme, sin memoria.
Generador de números aleatorios para tragamonedas, distribución ponderada, con símbolos que tienen diferentes probabilidades.
En las máquinas tragamonedas, cada símbolo tiene un valor matemático. No existen las mismas probabilidades en los rodillos.
Si tienes una explicación técnica diferente sobre la diferencia entre distribución uniforme (póker) y distribución ponderada (tragaperras), me interesa escucharla. Buscamos argumentos, no impresiones.
Los jugadores más peligrosos para un casino son:

– aquellos que juegan solo promociones +EV – aquellos que retiran el dinero inmediatamente después de una gran ganancia – aquellos que no regresan para 'devolverlo' – aquellos que juegan solo cuando el premio mayor es +EV – ¡ aquellos que utilizan una gestión estricta del capital!
EV significa Valor Esperado. Es uno de los conceptos más importantes en juegos de azar, póker y apuestas deportivas. EV = el promedio matemático del resultado a largo plazo. No indica lo que sucede en una sola sesión, sino lo que sucede si se repite la misma situación miles de veces.
Click to expand...
Hello I'm not sure what you want to get at with this if you want to get to anything. Or maybe you're just sharing this information. What everyone knows is that there are no long-term winners in slot machines. And casinos don't need to worry about anyone winning. Because where you won others lost so much. And simply with the betting limit they made sure to never go bankrupt🙂
 
Brigistul said:
– those who play only +EV promotions –
Click to expand...
That promos do casinos do that are +EV?

I don't pay much attention to anything not poker room related so I'm pretty unfamiliar with this.
 
monkeytilter said:
"Slots use a weighted distribution to maintain the RTP."
That does not mean the RNG is not random, or a "different type" of random. RNG is random number generator - period. Anything else it's not an RNG.
Click to expand...
Uniform means all outcomes have the same probability (poker). Weighted means some outcomes are more likely than others (slots). The RNG is random in both cases — only the distribution applied by the game differs.The difference is that the game maps those random numbers through a weighted distribution instead of a uniform one. The RNG stays random; the distribution applied by the game is what changes.
seiya1989 said:
Hello I'm not sure what you want to get at with this if you want to get to anything. Or maybe you're just sharing this information. What everyone knows is that there are no long-term winners in slot machines. And casinos don't need to worry about anyone winning. Because where you won others lost so much. And simply with the betting limit they made sure to never go bankrupt🙂
Click to expand...
In a uniform distribution, every possible outcome has the same probability.

Examples:

-every card in the deck has the same chance of being dealt
-every possible board combination has the same probability
-the RNG produces numbers, and the game maps them 1:1 to cards with no weighting
-This is what uniform means:

-52 cards → each one is 1/52
-no card is ‘favored’
-no card appears more often or less often in the long run.

In a weighted distribution, outcomes do not have equal probability. Slots assign different weights to different symbols some appear more frequently, others extremely rarely. The RNG is still random, but the game maps the random numbers through a weighted table to maintain the RTP. The randomness stays the same; only the distribution applied by the game changes.
 
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seiya1989 said:
Hello I'm not sure what you want to get at with this if you want to get to anything. Or maybe you're just sharing this information. What everyone knows is that there are no long-term winners in slot machines. And casinos don't need to worry about anyone winning. Because where you won others lost so much. And simply with the betting limit they made sure to never go bankrupt🙂
Click to expand...
Yes! I’m doing this to inform the people who don’t know these things.
 
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These are really the keys to being a winning player.


Brigistul said:
– those who play only +EV promotions – those who cash out immediately after a big win – those who don’t come back to ‘give it back’ – those who play only when the jackpot is +EV – those who use strict bankroll management!
EV means Expected Value .It’s one of the most important concepts in gambling, poker, and sports betting.EV = the mathematical average of the long‑term outcome. It doesn’t tell you what happens in a single session, but what happens if you repeat the same situation thousands of times.
Click to expand...

Its kinda like in the olden days, Absolute poker had bad beat tables, and whenever the prize got to over 1 million I would load up every table I could. My rakeback was good, the players were already weak and they were even weaker with the huge bonus, and you didnt need to hit it to win- you just needed anyone to hit the bad beat on any table. So someone hit the bad beat you would win say $1400 + plus your winnings from playing poker + rakeback and any promotions like rake races.

I think depending on where you live its hard to find +EV promotions these days.
 
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And that's right.
Poker is generally fair and uniform randomness,
slots are controlled randomness.
These games use RNGs and
in their mathematical model.
 
akgross said:
And that's right.
Poker is generally fair and uniform randomness,
slots are controlled randomness.
These games use RNGs and
in their mathematical model.
Click to expand...
That’s correct. Poker uses a fair, uniformly random model where all outcomes have the same probability. Slots, on the other hand, use controlled randomness through weighted distributions to maintain the RTP. Both games use real RNGs — the difference lies in the mathematical model applied on top of the RNG.
 
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TeUnit said:
These are really the keys to being a winning player.




Its kinda like in the olden days, Absolute poker had bad beat tables, and whenever the prize got to over 1 million I would load up every table I could. My rakeback was good, the players were already weak and they were even weaker with the huge bonus, and you didnt need to hit it to win- you just needed anyone to hit the bad beat on any table. So someone hit the bad beat you would win say $1400 + plus your winnings from playing poker + rakeback and any promotions like rake races.

I think depending on where you live its hard to find +EV promotions these days.
Click to expand...
That’s true. In the past there were many real +EV opportunities ,
TeUnit said:
These are really the keys to being a winning player.




Its kinda like in the olden days, Absolute poker had bad beat tables, and whenever the prize got to over 1 million I would load up every table I could. My rakeback was good, the players were already weak and they were even weaker with the huge bonus, and you didnt need to hit it to win- you just needed anyone to hit the bad beat on any table. So someone hit the bad beat you would win say $1400 + plus your winnings from playing poker + rakeback and any promotions like rake races.

I think depending on where you live its hard to find +EV promotions these days.
Click to expand...
TeUnit said:
These are really the keys to being a winning player.




Its kinda like in the olden days, Absolute poker had bad beat tables, and whenever the prize got to over 1 million I would load up every table I could. My rakeback was good, the players were already weak and they were even weaker with the huge bonus, and you didnt need to hit it to win- you just needed anyone to hit the bad beat on any table. So someone hit the bad beat you would win say $1400 + plus your winnings from playing poker + rakeback and any promotions like rake races.

I think depending on where you live its hard to find +EV promotions these days.
Click to expand...

That’s true. In the past there were many real +EV opportunities , bad beat tables, high rakeback, rake races, overlays. Today, depending on the country, these kinds of promotions are much rarer and much more controlled. The market has matured and operators no longer leave free value on the table.
 
maronza1 said:
I fully agree with you, the RTP in slots is meant to favour the house
Click to expand...
This has nothing to do with the RNG itself, but with the weighted distribution and how the game maps the outcomes. The randomness is real, but it’s controlled by design to maintain the operator’s edge.
 
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TeUnit said:
These are really the keys to being a winning player.




Its kinda like in the olden days, Absolute poker had bad beat tables, and whenever the prize got to over 1 million I would load up every table I could. My rakeback was good, the players were already weak and they were even weaker with the huge bonus, and you didnt need to hit it to win- you just needed anyone to hit the bad beat on any table. So someone hit the bad beat you would win say $1400 + plus your winnings from playing poker + rakeback and any promotions like rake races.

I think depending on where you live its hard to find +EV promotions these days.
Click to expand...
I agree with your take on the bad beat tables, personally about 6 years ago while playing in a 3/6 Limit table one of the players holding 10 10 and the board gave 10 10 and she lost to a str8 flush. the payout was over $360,000. and the table share per player was $12,900. a good payday for a 3/6 table.
 
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Brigistul said:
The RNG used in slot machines does NOT work like the RNG used in online poker. This is a huge misconception.
Poker RNG , uniform distribution, no memory.
Slot RNG , weighted distribution, with symbols that have different probabilities
In slot machines, every symbol has a mathematical weight. There are no “equal chances” on the reels.
If you have a different technical explanation for the difference between uniform distribution (poker) and weighted distribution (slots), I’m curious to hear it. Let’s see arguments, not impressions.
The most dangerous players for a casino are:

– those who play only +EV promotions – those who cash out immediately after a big win – those who don’t come back to ‘give it back’ – those who play only when the jackpot is +EV – those who use strict bankroll management!
EV means Expected Value .It’s one of the most important concepts in gambling, poker, and sports betting.EV = the mathematical average of the long‑term outcome. It doesn’t tell you what happens in a single session, but what happens if you repeat the same situation thousands of times.
Click to expand...
The random number generator in both cases is random. But since the games are different, this whole system works differently, which in my opinion is obvious to most players. It is not very clear what the essence of your observation is and how it can help others.
 
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Rost said:
The random number generator in both cases is random. But since the games are different, this whole system works differently, which in my opinion is obvious to most players. It is not very clear what the essence of your observation is and how it can help others.
Click to expand...
If you read it, you will also find out the essence. There are key differences between slots and poker in terms of how they are displayed and what is behind these displays!
 
Brigistul said:
The RNG used in slot machines does NOT work like the RNG used in online poker. This is a huge misconception.
Poker RNG , uniform distribution, no memory.
Slot RNG , weighted distribution, with symbols that have different probabilities
In slot machines, every symbol has a mathematical weight. There are no “equal chances” on the reels.
If you have a different technical explanation for the difference between uniform distribution (poker) and weighted distribution (slots), I’m curious to hear it. Let’s see arguments, not impressions.
The most dangerous players for a casino are:

– those who play only +EV promotions – those who cash out immediately after a big win – those who don’t come back to ‘give it back’ – those who play only when the jackpot is +EV – those who use strict bankroll management!
EV means Expected Value .It’s one of the most important concepts in gambling, poker, and sports betting.EV = the mathematical average of the long‑term outcome. It doesn’t tell you what happens in a single session, but what happens if you repeat the same situation thousands of times.
Click to expand...
Do you know that football and counter strike and checkers are games?
Do you understand that they are different games?
If so. then I just think everything else should be obvious to you
 
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Brigistul said:
The RNG used in slot machines does NOT work like the RNG used in online poker. This is a huge misconception.
Poker RNG , uniform distribution, no memory.
Slot RNG , weighted distribution, with symbols that have different probabilities
In slot machines, every symbol has a mathematical weight. There are no “equal chances” on the reels.
If you have a different technical explanation for the difference between uniform distribution (poker) and weighted distribution (slots), I’m curious to hear it. Let’s see arguments, not impressions.
The most dangerous players for a casino are:

– those who play only +EV promotions – those who cash out immediately after a big win – those who don’t come back to ‘give it back’ – those who play only when the jackpot is +EV – those who use strict bankroll management!
EV means Expected Value .It’s one of the most important concepts in gambling, poker, and sports betting.EV = the mathematical average of the long‑term outcome. It doesn’t tell you what happens in a single session, but what happens if you repeat the same situation thousands of times.
Click to expand...
Slot RNG vs. Poker RNG
Of course, you are right.
And do you know what the fundamental difference is?
Because Poker and Slots are different games. They are simply different.
 
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well the same or not , rng sucks everywhere, so no difference to me when it comes to fair results , not crazy stupid outcomes or bad luck or bad beats all the time .
 
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That's right, not all RNGs are the same.

In poker, the system tries to be "fair": every card has the same chance of appearing, as if it were a real deck of cards.

In slot machines, however, the system is intentionally "rigged": some symbols appear much more often, others almost never. This is how the casino ensures that, in the long run, it always wins.

(This is generally something well known to players.)

But we have to take other things into consideration...
Even computer RNGs are never truly 100% random.

Since it's a program, it needs a "seed" to start. Therefore, many systems use things from the moment, such as fractions of a second, mouse position, PC temperature, or even region and time data. It's a way to try to "complicate" the result even more.

I remember reading a lot about how complicated it is for a machine to generate truly random numbers!
 
I didn't really understand what the point was. You're kind of telling us that if you play poker, then this game is a game called poker. And if you play slots, then be careful, because slots are not poker 🙂
 
kunkgreen said:
That's right, not all RNGs are the same.

In poker, the system tries to be "fair": every card has the same chance of appearing, as if it were a real deck of cards.

In slot machines, however, the system is intentionally "rigged": some symbols appear much more often, others almost never. This is how the casino ensures that, in the long run, it always wins.

(This is generally something well known to players.)

But we have to take other things into consideration...
Even computer RNGs are never truly 100% random.

Since it's a program, it needs a "seed" to start. Therefore, many systems use things from the moment, such as fractions of a second, mouse position, PC temperature, or even region and time data. It's a way to try to "complicate" the result even more.

I remember reading a lot about how complicated it is for a machine to generate truly random numbers!
Click to expand...
In poker, the RNG is uniform, memoryless every card has the same chance, just like a real deck. In slot machines, the RNG is weighted, because the game must respect its RTP. That’s not “rigged”; it’s basic math.

As for “seed”, “time”, “mouse position”, etc.: Yes, software RNGs use a seed. That doesn’t change the fact that the distribution is controlled by the game, not by the RNG itself.

So before explaining things that any informed player already knows, it might help to understand the difference between:

-randomness (the RNG generates numbers)
-distribution (the game decides what those numbers mean)
That’s the part most people miss.
 
R.Holynskyi said:
I didn't really understand what the point was. You're kind of telling us that if you play poker, then this game is a game called poker. And if you play slots, then be careful, because slots are not poker 🙂
Click to expand...
You completely misunderstood the point. I didn’t say “if you play poker, then it’s poker” ... that’s a caricature of what I wrote.

I explained the technical difference between two types of RNG:

-uniform RNG :used in poker, where all cards have the same probability
-weighted RNG : used in slots, where symbols have different probabilities
That’s the core of the discussion, not obvious statements like “poker is poker and slots are slots”.

If you didn’t understand the difference between randomness and distribution, that’s fine — but don’t turn it into an ironic comment toward me.

I gave a technical answer to a technical topic. If you don’t have anything relevant to add, there’s no need to jump in.
 
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