ratbat615 said:
This has been discussed over and over throughout the years and I don't think it will ever have a solution.
On one hand, it's obvious that casino people don't like winners that much, especially the ones who win big. And they try to get rid of them as legally as they can.
On the other hand, they cannot make "Counting cards" an illegal act. It's a mind activity that has nothing to do with stealing or cheating.
That's why a lot of people, smart people, will continue to count cards, trying to reduce that house edge. Most of the time, they only get caught after having won some significant amount of money. And then they get banned, so what!!!
The problem now is that most casinos made it very hard to count cards by implementing automatic shufflers...
They don't want very smart people; they don't want above average, but they have blackjack because they have a 2% advantageratbat615 said:
and a 95% average intelligence, so no matter who wins or what amount, they NEVER lose.
You don't need a above avg intelligence to count cards. A simple hi/lo count system works fine.
2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are all scored +1(Low cards).
7, 8, 9 are all scored 0(Neutral)
10, J, Q, K, A are scored -1(High cards)
Low cards are good for the dealer (they help the dealer make 17+), so you count them as +1. High cards are good for the player (more blackjacks, better doubles, dealer busts more), so you count them as -1.
Start at 0 when the shoe is fresh (newly shuffled).
Add or subtract the value of every card you see (player cards + dealer cards).
This is called the Running Count.
Now basically count the cards as they come out and keep a running score. The more low cards that come out means they're more face-cards in the deck which favor the player. The higher the count in the + the more you should bet. When the count is in the - you bet table min. It's no more complicated then that. You can likely make it more complicated I haven't read a black strategy book in 30+ years now. Fwiw Grok(AI) says the hi/lo system can still win in 2026 although it's edge is a bit smaller then 20+ years ago.
Full disclosure: I haven't played blackjack in a casino in 15+ years so not gambling advice 🤣 . Even thou the last time I did walk out with 5k.
Cheers!!!
2, 3, 4, 5, 6 are all scored +1(Low cards).
7, 8, 9 are all scored 0(Neutral)
10, J, Q, K, A are scored -1(High cards)
Low cards are good for the dealer (they help the dealer make 17+), so you count them as +1. High cards are good for the player (more blackjacks, better doubles, dealer busts more), so you count them as -1.
Start at 0 when the shoe is fresh (newly shuffled).
Add or subtract the value of every card you see (player cards + dealer cards).
This is called the Running Count.
Now basically count the cards as they come out and keep a running score. The more low cards that come out means they're more face-cards in the deck which favor the player. The higher the count in the + the more you should bet. When the count is in the - you bet table min. It's no more complicated then that. You can likely make it more complicated I haven't read a black strategy book in 30+ years now. Fwiw Grok(AI) says the hi/lo system can still win in 2026 although it's edge is a bit smaller then 20+ years ago.
Full disclosure: I haven't played blackjack in a casino in 15+ years so not gambling advice 🤣 . Even thou the last time I did walk out with 5k.
Cheers!!!
I can see both sides of the argument. Card counting isn't cheating—you're simply using information that's available to everyone at the table and keeping track of the cards that have been played.
The reason casinos don't like it is simple: blackjack is one of the few casino games where a skilled player can potentially gain an edge over the house. Casinos are businesses, and they prefer games where the mathematical advantage stays on their side.
I don't think it's about not wanting smart people. Casinos are happy to have smart players as long as the house still has the edge. Card counters are different because they can reduce or even overcome that edge under the right conditions.
Personally, I find it a bit ironic that casinos promote blackjack as a game of skill and strategy, but become uncomfortable when someone gets too good at it. 😄
The reason casinos don't like it is simple: blackjack is one of the few casino games where a skilled player can potentially gain an edge over the house. Casinos are businesses, and they prefer games where the mathematical advantage stays on their side.
I don't think it's about not wanting smart people. Casinos are happy to have smart players as long as the house still has the edge. Card counters are different because they can reduce or even overcome that edge under the right conditions.
Personally, I find it a bit ironic that casinos promote blackjack as a game of skill and strategy, but become uncomfortable when someone gets too good at it. 😄
Yeah. The house does a pretty good job with 4 decks of cards and reshuffling right after dealing out half the cards instead of going through the whole deck. Puts a big kink in the card counters chances of winning some real money.
They can't can you for counting cards, what they do ban folks for is varying their bet sizing, splits and surrenders, etc based on the count. The house tracks the count too so they know when you're varying your play based on the count.
G0930
Captain Fathermucker, Satty Aficionado
Platinum Level
From their perspective it isn't bad in the slightest. A casino exists to make profit not to harbour sucessfull gamblers.ratbat615 said:
If they would allow card counting , offering Black Jack would be a gigantic loss.
Casinos only work when they have the edge. Nobody in their right mind would open a casino otherwise.
You and me would do the same...or go broke
G0930 said:
In theory they should they be able to tolerate a few winning customers if the large majority are losing.
The problem is that the average person who likes to gamble at a Casino might go a few times a year, with a subset of customers going a bit more often. If somebody is allowed to play Blackjack or whatever at small edge, they will spend 10 hours a day in the casino , every day, at the highest stakes their bankroll allows, and their friends will do the same.
