Ace King suited?

Irexes said:

Muckets, you are wrong about 22 being a better hand to get it in with than AK. We're talking about tournaments here, not heads up or anything else. That was the subject of the OP and subject of your first post.

Sorry, but it's true and your first post was very misleading and worth correcting.

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As i read the post it is a given that the guy is going to shove. Now which hand is better to have. If you must shove. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I said AK is the best drawing hand but it is still nothing. Of course i would expect you to agree with Zach.

MrMuckets said:

As i read the post it is a given that the guy is going to shove. Now which hand is better to have. If you must shove. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I said AK is the best drawing hand but it is still nothing. Of course i would expect you to agree with Zach.

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sigh. i'll give it one more try for the team

if the money is going all-in preflop, all that matters is equity. not "drawing hand" this or "drawing hand" that. once you're already all-in, 22 is just as much a drawing hand because you're "drawing" to all the cards that don't hit your opponent or counterfeit you

AK gets it in dominating often (vs. AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ/AT), whereas 22 can get all-in dominating very very close to never (A2 possibly??). this is why AK has better equity against the range of hands people get all-in with (which zach has shown you). equity is what counts

I dont think pushen with AK is good idea..unless your short stacked..yes its a good hand but its still not a made hand preflop so next time just try to play it out...of course it still may not work

MrMuckets said:

As i read the post it is a given that the guy is going to shove. Now which hand is better to have. If you must shove. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I said AK is the best drawing hand but it is still nothing. Of course i would expect you to agree with Zach.

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AK all day long, it's a flip against some of your opponents range and dominates some of it. It's only a dog against AA and KK.

22 is a flip against some of the range and dominated by the rest. It dominates nothing.

Many things in poker are matters of opinion, context and nuance. This isn't, you are just wrong and arguing in order to avoid admitting it.


And please quit trolling, I've disagreed with Zach about many of things.

Also just to note Zach's been man enough to note that although correct he could have had more tact in this thread. He sets a good example.

Wow......this thread got out of hand, which I expected before I opened it.

Just some advice to the orignal poster and other members that have not been around too long, try using the search button for very vague topics that you know others have to have asked before. Just try and use some common sense.

To the OP: Dude, your question is terrible. This is possibly the most vague question with absolutely no way to tell what is going on in the hand, or really in the tournament for that matter.

Next time you run into this situation copy the hand history and save it somewhere. Come back and post it in our tournament hand analysis section. I promise the answers will give you a lot more direction than this type of thread ever will.

You can even PM me if you want some basic advice on tournament play, concepts and resources.

MrMuckets said:

As i read the post it is a given that the guy is going to shove. Now which hand is better to have. If you must shove. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I said AK is the best drawing hand but it is still nothing. Of course i would expect you to agree with Zach.

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lol wat

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.751% 64.91% 00.84% 21783519396 283348986.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 34.249% 33.40% 00.84% 11210941032 283348986.00 { random }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.334% 49.39% 00.95% 6215338932 119416020.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 49.666% 48.72% 00.95% 6131263428 119416020.00 { random }


if you like we can play a rousing game of 'you give me villain's calling ranges and i put them into pstove and show AK is better'

i'll tell you what mr. muckets. let's have a flop of 889 two hearts. you can have the made hand, pocket 2s, and i'll take a silly draw like JT of hearts, and we'll go all-in. i'm just a crazy gambler with a prayer. you're the one with two pair. surely you'll do better than me if we just played that hand over and over again, right?!

Dorkus Malorkus said:

lol wat

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 65.751% 64.91% 00.84% 21783519396 283348986.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 34.249% 33.40% 00.84% 11210941032 283348986.00 { random }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.334% 49.39% 00.95% 6215338932 119416020.00 { 22 }
Hand 1: 49.666% 48.72% 00.95% 6131263428 119416020.00 { random }

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I think MrMuckets might be stuck thinking in the terms of how well 22 does vs. AK everytime, as opposed to AK vs random & 22 vs random. The latter is what happens in reality.

Everytime you push with 22 does not mean you are facing AK or 2 overs.

I have no problem being wrong. I am wrong quite often. What i have a problem with is someone who goes to another area and cries about no one posting in the general poker forum and as soon as some one does they ignore the OP and jump on the one thread that was not entirely correct. I won't post again here. Much like Doyle Brunson i don't know the math i play by feel. I do ok with that. You elitist can have you little forum You can be ok with that. OK. Some people need to learn tact i guess.

For someone who has no problem being wrong, you really react badly to it.

And Zach made a post about possible lack of tact and apologised, though it was hardly a horrific crime.

Anyway locking this. And goodbye I guess.