Avoiding terrible play: Should I move up in stakes?

Hey guys,

Playing on full tilt a while now, playing loads of $2.25 double deuce satellites and $1-3 SNG/MTT's.. and I'm constantly being crushed by random hands - K7s etc and not just early in the tournament... I'd consider myself a good player, but when theres silly people calling random things it gets kinda hard to dodge the whole thing...

Are higher stakes any tighter and more legit? statistics say I will make a profit off a donkey or two at the table, but when theres a whole field to dodge to get ITM it gets aggravating.

Speaking from experience, I don't think its wise to move up in stakes until you are able to comfortably making a return on the current stakes you are playing at. No matter what level you get to, there is always going to be the random joker that gets you and the key is to ensure that over the long run you are on the better, receiving end of those 'jokes'. If you are playing quality hands and are playing them the way you should, in the long term - statistically - you will be paid off more than you are paying off others. The key is to make sure that you don't let the K7 off suit get in the way of how you are playing.

Just my 2 cents at least.

RyanDG said:

Speaking from experience, I don't think its wise to move up in stakes until you are able to comfortably making a return on the current stakes you are playing at. No matter what level you get to, there is always going to be the random joker that gets you and the key is to ensure that over the long run you are on the better, receiving end of those 'jokes'. If you are playing quality hands and are playing them the way you should, in the long term - statistically - you will be paid off more than you are paying off others. The key is to make sure that you don't let the K7 off suit get in the way of how you are playing.

Just my 2 cents at least.

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I agree, you gotta just stick to your game and in the end if you have the better hand when the money goes in, you will win more times then you will lose.

I mildly agree with the previous posts but I think it's a different story at such micro levels, which you're currently playing.

In the long run you should be able to say it's easier to beat bad players but to what extent? It's very hard to stay consistent and build a decent bankroll when you'll naturally be swingy in terms of ITM results. The fact that you're not dealing with not just one joker but possibly 2 to three, or possibly even more at a table on weekends just makes the matter worse. Do you feel get a decent payoff for dodging a table full of idiots or is it worth it to move up in stakes and gaining an advantage in terms of quality play? I suppose the next argument would be how high of a level would you have to move for it to be worth it, in terms of play and buy-in, and can you afford to do it.

If your having trouble beating micro donks moving up will only result in busto imo.
The guys that push all-in with 94s are the reason poker can be profitable, and they obvs. win sometimes and think there actualy good at poker and keep playing.
You dont make most of your money of good players, u make it off the weak ones so if your having troubles with them u will only get crushed against better players, then again there are donks at all levels.

Just my 2cents.

no sir...i am currently at the same level and everytime i moved up i found out that i simply couldnt afford to lose without killing my young bankroll, take ur time adjust and crush...if u have to play with the fear of knowing u cant afford to lose without busting then its not worth it...obviously if u still have money in your account that ur doing well

There are donks at all levels. $20 or even $200 is still play money to many people you'll be up against. Treat this as a good chance to learn. Instead of wishing there were no bad players, learn to recognize them. Profit from their mistakes and learn to manage stacks and pot sizes to minimize your risk to being drawn out on a single hand.

Those fish are your main source of food! Learn to be a predator.

What they said... What might seem like a move up in stakes to you may be normal stakes for a rich oil man or Lawyer who are still donks at poker... SO they play at a level their bankroll dictates not how good they are..

So ... higher stakes do not always mean better players... Only move up when your bankroll dictates.

They are still in there in $109+ tournaments. Work out a way to survive or to improve the odds of your survival.

There are many reason to not move up expecting to do better because the hope that you will not run into as many donks.

One, as you progress up in levels the competition, at least some of the players, will be better. However, some of them will still be donks.

You think you have problems dealing with the loss of 2 or 3 dollars after an hour of so of play. Wait until you have $20 or $50 hanging on one hand and a donk takes you out.

Two, as the amount you invest increase so does the stress of losiing increase, which can lead to even more tilt that you might be experiencing at the lower levels.

Simple said. You might feel little or no stress when you get taken out by a donkey at a $2 buyin and move on to the next with very little issue concerning tilt. However, step that up to a $20 buy in and you may be in big trouble if you move on to the next tourney without taking time to recompose yourself.

Point one and two may sound like I am repeating myself, but in a sense it is a bit deeper. However, nothing wrong with almost repeating the same thing to get a point across.

I from time to time watch 30/60 dollar limit games. Now, where it is true that perhaps these players have better info on each other than the guys playing 25/50 CENT limit.

The Donkey playing 25 UTG and catching runner runner for a straight to beat AA who was showing strength all the way to the river is still a donk.

Believe me when I say. That happens at 30/60 Dollar.

The point Bigsmak makes is very valid.

The biggest point is you need to adjust to those donks because, to a point, they will always be there.

That means winning in the long run despite what seems to be an onslaught of bad beats by the worst players.

Cutting your losses and getting out of a hand limiting your losses when the donkey sucks is a key to long term success.

However, you still have to punish the bad decision by bad players if you expect to rake in the pots that will mean profit to you.

It is a delicate balancing act.

When you can do this then you are ready to move up to the next level. Not on minute before then or you will just end up back to the lower levels with a much wounded Bankroll.

sindri_93 said:

If your having trouble beating micro donks moving up will only result in busto imo.
The guys that push all-in with 94s are the reason poker can be profitable, and they obvs. win sometimes and think there actualy good at poker and keep playing.
You dont make most of your money of good players, u make it off the weak ones so if your having troubles with them u will only get crushed against better players, then again there are donks at all levels.

Just my 2cents.

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^ this.

Those who are saying that there are donks at all levels are correct, but there are lots more donks at the low levels. You'll have increased variance playing against them, but if you can't beat them over a reasonable sample then you're only going to go broke faster by moving up. People don't suddenly become weak-tight once they pay more than $10 to enter a tournament or anything.

If you cant beat the bad players, do you really think you can beat the good ones.

With big hands you lose, print off the hand history, make notes of how much and when you bet / called. Then evaluate, if you are constantly losing to worse starting hands - then its your play at fault.