Being moved during tourney

Panamajoe · Apr 21, 2008

Anyone know why a person gets moved to a different table during a tournament?

Very frequently I just get a good read on the table when they move me, individually, to a different table.

I understand that when there are not enough players they move the whole table but what possible reason is there to move an individual during a tourney?

This moving really throws me off, does that happen during butt in seat tourneys too? ( I wouldn't mind finding out a better term for face to face tourneys than butt in seat too.)

gtycoon · Apr 21, 2008

They try to keep an even balance of players over all the tables. Sometimes a table will have 2 or 3 people knocked out at once and then they'll have to bring a player from another table to replace them to even out the tables. Then of course tables have to collapse as it reaches a point when there are more tables than they need.

Emperor IX · Apr 21, 2008

Not to mention to even up the stack sizes distribution at the table. ^^

burton_boy · Apr 21, 2008

Panamajoe said:
( I wouldn't mind finding out a better term for face to face tourneys than butt in seat too.)

Live works IMO.

l Love Beer · Apr 21, 2008

i know what you're saying, last night's midnight madness on FT i'd been at a table for about 40 min... had a good read on about 4 or 5 people i was playing with, moved tables and dropped from about 25th to 100th place in the tourney...

I mean i know why it happens, but it's just one of those luck factors that come into play in MTT.

K_Kahne_Fan · Apr 21, 2008

From PokerStars web site

As players are eliminated from the tournament, the software may balance tables to ensure all tables have an equal number (or as close as possible) number of active players. The balancing of tables is done randomly and, although rare, may result in a player having to post several big blinds in a row. When nine players remain in a Hold'em or Omaha tournament or eight players remain in a Seven Card Stud tournament, all players are brought together at the "final table".

And yes, this happens in "Live" games as well. Weather it's a small local card room or the The Main Event, you will move. It's frustrating, but there's really no other way to do it. Technically you could deal up to 23 people into 1 deck, but I think the blinds would need to be a little longer

PokerVic · Apr 21, 2008

Emperor IX said:
Not to mention to even up the stack sizes distribution at the table. ^^

I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen, at least at Poker Stars. It's not uncommon to see 1 table with 2-3x as many total chips as another.

RayG59 · Apr 22, 2008

I don't alltogether know, but I do know that several times I have been doing very well then get moved and start running cold. I hate when that happens.

KingCurtis · Apr 22, 2008

PokerVic said:
I'm pretty sure this doesn't happen, at least at Poker Stars. It's not uncommon to see 1 table with 2-3x as many total chips as another.

it happens trust me usually to chip leaders, ive been moved mabny times with the 2nd and 3rd place chip stacks it creates action, but i dont know if action is the inteded purpose.

PokerVic · Apr 22, 2008

Well, as K_Kahne_Fan posted, from Poker Stars website, the balancing is done randomly. Unless someone has evidence that they take chipstacks into account, I'm going to believe it's random, and any patterns detected are just odd situations that will happen in any random distribution.

WVHillbilly · Apr 22, 2008

Movement does NOT occur based on stack sizes. It's only done to keep the tables as balanced as possible. So if 12 people remain in a tourney there won't be a table of 5 and a table of 7, rather 2 tables of 6.

OzExorcist · Apr 22, 2008

WVHillbilly said:
Movement does NOT occur based on stack sizes. It's only done to keep the tables as balanced as possible. So if 12 people remain in a tourney there won't be a table of 5 and a table of 7, rather 2 tables of 6.

^ this.

I don't know how they do it online, it's supposed to be random. I can tell you how it usually works live though:

In a casino tournament, the dealer will usually have a card / marker for every seat at their table. If a player on their table gets knocked out, the dealer gives the corresponding seat card to the floor manager. This way, they keep track of where the empty seats in the room are.

When the number of empty seats available becomes equal to a full table's worth of players (so, ten empty seats spread around the room if the tables are playing ten handed), the floor manager will go to the next table on their break-down list, place all the seat cards face down on the table, and the players will pick one of the cards.

That card will tell them where their new seat is - since the players pick their own cards and they can't see where the new seat is going to be, it ensures it's random. Stack size is certainly not taken into account.

royalburrito24 · Apr 22, 2008

K_Kahne_Fan said:
Technically you could deal up to 23 people into 1 deck, but I think the blinds would need to be a little longer

22 (you forgot the burn cards

).

gtycoon · Apr 22, 2008

There was one time I remember that I spent the whole tournament at a single table without moving and I ended up winning it. It was quite a strange thing because I don't believe there was ever I time I wasn't moved in a tournament, except if I was knocked out early.

K_Kahne_Fan · Apr 22, 2008

royalburrito24 said:
22 (you forgot the burn cards ).

Oops, sorry about that

You could have multi-deck games, but talk about a strange hand rank list

Panamajoe · Apr 23, 2008

Thanks for all the responses!

gtycoon said:
They try to keep an even balance of players over all the tables. Sometimes a table will have 2 or 3 people knocked out at once and then they'll have to bring a player from another table to replace them to even out the tables. Then of course tables have to collapse as it reaches a point when there are more tables than they need.

It didn't occur to me that it wasn't a vendetta against me.... just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

K_Kahne_Fan said, in part "And yes, this happens in "Live" games as well. Weather it's a small local card room or the The Main Event, you will move. "

Verrry interesting, thanks.

gott1rott · Apr 25, 2008

They do it to keep balance at the tables. Otherwise you would have a bunch of table going 4 handed and headsup. They want the blinds to hit everyone equally.

muddawgg · Apr 25, 2008

it's hard to get a table image when yoy get moved alot..also tough to get reads

ryaned · Apr 25, 2008

I believe the player who gets moved is based on table position relative to blinds except for the final table when it is random and you could move to the big blind after just posting BB at the previous table

N.D. · Apr 25, 2008

I have to be the glob of peanut butter in the jelly jar here.

An MTT is an MTT. If you want to keep your seat you have only two options. Option one is to play in a ring game/cash game. Option two is to join a single table SNG(does anyone call them STT's?). Technically you've a third option which is to not play but, who'd take that option?

BTW I suppose it's tough for ANYONE to get a good read at a table. Even live. Heck they have those programs where even the pros admit that a tell for one person means the opposite for another. I've observed online that betting patterns are a kind of tell(Does it automatically make me play better? I wish!). Maybe your reward(Apart from money. Did I just say that?) with enough chips to work with is; you'll be there long enough to get a good read on the table

.

^^At least half of that could just be me talking out of my butt. Standard practice for when I'm confused. I'm very confused why anyone would have a problem with being moved during an MTT(hey, sometimes it helps, gets you away from a bully with enough chips to bully successfully).

K_Kahne_Fan · Apr 25, 2008

ryaned said:
I believe the player who gets moved is based on table position relative to blinds except for the final table when it is random and you could move to the big blind after just posting BB at the previous table

I would agree with this. I think most poker sites, and even live, try to grab someone who is in relatively the same position to the button as the will be when moved so no one gets screwed by the move. If anything they may even grab someone in 1 further position and it may allow you to miss a blind, but not pay 2. Sometimes, when going to 1 or 2 tables, there may be no option but for some people to pay twice though.

Panamajoe · Apr 27, 2008

Of course you are right....

... about an MTT being an MTT, I was trying to understand the decision making related to when the director moves people. Sometimes it seems totally unnecessary, but I understand a lot better the strains during a tourney to keep the tables balanced. So, when I get moved after the first hand next time I'll just have to figure that a bunch of folks went all in on the first hand and they need to balance the tables.

Thanks again for the great tutorial guys!

N.D. said:
I have to be the glob of peanut butter in the jelly jar here.

An MTT is an MTT. If you want to keep your seat you have only two options. Option one is to play in a ring game/cash game. Option two is to join a single table SNG(does anyone call them STT's?). Technically you've a third option which is to not play but, who'd take that option?

BTW I suppose it's tough for ANYONE to get a good read at a table. Even live. Heck they have those programs where even the pros admit that a tell for one person means the opposite for another. I've observed online that betting patterns are a kind of tell(Does it automatically make me play better? I wish!). Maybe your reward(Apart from money. Did I just say that?) with enough chips to work with is; you'll be there long enough to get a good read on the table .

^^At least half of that could just be me talking out of my butt. Standard practice for when I'm confused. I'm very confused why anyone would have a problem with being moved during an MTT(hey, sometimes it helps, gets you away from a bully with enough chips to bully successfully).

pachvd · Apr 27, 2008

I just have one advice for you, try to play just fewer hands or non hands if possible when you are just moved, because u dont know how the other players are, and maybe you are going to find that the guy you are facing at some hand is a big bluffer or the one who only stays with three of a kind or better.

So just sit back and watch your new table, it will make you make less mistakes.

mr_president21 · Apr 27, 2008

I dont think the sites should move you during a tournament unless absolutely needed or they move everyone with you.

nevadanick · Apr 27, 2008

mr_president21 said:
I dont think the sites should move you during a tournament unless absolutely needed or they move everyone with you.

It's the only way to keep a balance, online and/or live. There are times single moves are made even at our live tourneys here. One table goes short due to multiple players going out while other tables are still strong. Those moves are made with button/blind positions in mind.

One of the few things in poker that is truly - FAIR ...

Being moved during tourney

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