The better the opposition, the less the cards matter?

screamingmidget · Dec 2, 2019

Something I was told about 10 years ago when I first started playing the game.

"The better the opposition, the less the cards matter."

I thought it was an interesting quote and it makes sense. If you're playing against a top professional, what you have in your hand doesn't matter as much as playing the cards vs weak players. It's all about psychology and tells.

What are your thoughts?

Collin Moshman · Dec 2, 2019

I think that generally it's true. Imagine we're playing heads-up against a total calling station. Our cards are everything against this player. He almost never folds, so all we're doing is assessing whether our hand is likely best and value betting.

We could get the top pro to fold sometimes so based on his betting patterns, the board, how active we've been recently, etc, we could disregard our cards and run multi-street bluffs to get him to fold (or occasionally have a monster hand we didn't know about!).

The best for not having cards that mattered would be a weak player who was tight-passive and over-folded. Against this opponent, we show a big profit just by raising a lot pre-flop and c-betting flops.

Combining all the above would make for a very long quote

So on balance, I think your friend's idea works very well and that cards are more significant against weaker players than pros.

kley126 · Dec 2, 2019

If those words are very true and that is the way the position has much more importance than the letters because it gives you the privilege of being more risky and much more aggressive

screamingmidget · Dec 2, 2019

Thanks for the replies. I often come back to this thought and think it improves my game.

HaroldHouse · Dec 2, 2019

The better the oppositon the more they play ranges instead their 2 cards.

pentazepam · Dec 2, 2019

On the other hand: the only way to beat a better player is to get lucky and get better cards.

And against a weak player that over-folds the cards don't matter much at all.

So if you as an amateur plays a professional (not recommended) - you can win in the short run if you get good cards.

In the long run I agree that since you can play ABC poker against bad opponents the cards are more important.

It is back to the three main advantages you can have: skill, cards and position.

If you don't have the skill advantage (and position varies) you better get the cards.

So if you are the better player the cards matter less. But if you are the worse player the cards matter a lot.

In the short run. In the long run you should avoid playing against good players.

skaniol · Dec 2, 2019

Sorry for quoting myself from another thread, but what I said there is relevant:

skaniol said:
Keep in mind that many players haven't read any books, so they have no idea what you are doing and how your position is important. On the other hand, a lot of the players already understand it. This doesn't mean you can't use it against them. You just play a higher level poker against such players and you try to mix your strategy.

Basic level poker is just concentrating on your own hand, position, pot odds and other math stuff like that. You are mainly concerned about yourself. A level 2 poker would be to concentrate on the other players too. Determining their playstyle. Thinking what hands they may have. At level 3 you are also concerned about your own image and what your moves represent. How do you want to appear to the other players; what kind of hand you want them to think you have; etc.. At level 4 you try to figure out what your opponents are trying to represent and how you can exploit that. At level 5 you think about what your opposition is thinking that you are trying to represent. At level 6... ok, let's stop now. This could continue, but if your opponent has a lower theory of mind (ToM) ability, you are overthinking. One could attribute thinking abilities even to inanimate objects, after all.

The better players have a higher ToM ability. So, yes—the higher levels of poker allow more mind games. More mind games means more opportunities to end the hand without a showdown, where the cards matter. You can't rely on much more than your own cards against basic level poker players and worse, because such players can't (or refuse to) interpret your actions, unless they are weak tight (folding too much).

UncleConRon · Dec 2, 2019

My opinion

I agree with that thought. You can't overcome the hierarchy of poker prowlness. However you can lay it on the line and bet the blind cards coming and go all-in. Lets say you have a pocket pair. Havent hit trips in a while and two cards on table left. The pro is getting into your head and going to make you spill the beans. Just tell the truth and go all-in. Let him do the thinking.

BriceNice · Dec 2, 2019

May be 10 years ago but I think now poker is all math and probability. Internet guys sucked all the life out of poker.

Transcendence · Dec 3, 2019

Well, of course, if you play against a professional, then AA will burn. The motive is clear. Yeah, there's something in that.

Zvezda kz · Dec 3, 2019

I think you are going in the right direction))

Deedgee · Dec 5, 2019

No. I think it's the other way around. When you're playing against bad players, like you see so often in freeroll tournaments, it often fees like strategy is irrelevant. It's simply gambling.

SSorin18 · Dec 25, 2019

Not only that this is true,but even regarding the cards.. a skilled player knows how to use THE SAME CARDS BETTER..simply by analysing value..

tw082 · Dec 25, 2019

theres a quote that says you can only bluff a good player if your playing with fish you better have the cards. true to some extent

vittopio · Dec 25, 2019

For me personally, this is very misleading! From his experience I can say that the very steep bluffs I were against weak players! I think the strongest players think bands and they are very difficult to beat without strong cards! They are able not only to read but also opponents are quickly adjusted!

Fatman0912 · Dec 25, 2019

I can understand this quote, because the better the opposition also position, stack, previous behaviour, time in tournament, ... will matter. And yeah, weak players will be more active on better cards.

This Fish Chums · Dec 27, 2019

This is only true if you possess good reading and bluffing skills. If you can't read a good player then you'll never know when to bluff at the right time and will get called or re-raised with weak cards. If you bluff poorly they will see right through it and you will get called or re-raised with weak cards. So, before someone tries to jump into the high stakes games and play like cards don't matter, you need to develop some key skills that make you not the worst player at the table.

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The better the opposition, the less the cards matter?

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