Cash Games or Tournaments?

really depends what stakes your playing in low stakes cash tables the rake is very significant and can make winning a lot harder.
That rake is been payed every single hand that gets to a significant size whilst in sit and goes you only play the initial buyin.

neglecting other factors and just considering rake at low stakes sit and goes or tournaments are definitely preferable to cash tables.

exception been some sites which charge up to 20% rake for sit and goes, that is atrocious and avoid such sites.

However when you get to high stakes The rake rarely becomes relevant on cash tables since it is such a small proportion but still remains relevant in tournaments or sit and goes.

so it kind of reverses as you move up stakes.

0wnerr said:

Tournaments are safer .. has the cash game, you can even make money easier and faster, but can also lose everything in one hand .. most often opt for tournaments.

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That is why you employ bankroll management skills and don't play outside of your limits. If you lose one buy-in in a cash game, it will be a small portion of your roll. Tournaments you can still buy-in for the same amount you would in a cash game, and you have a much better chance leaving with nothing than you would in a cash game.

For example, you buy-in to the Daily Dollar for $1 with 10,000 people in it and 1,000 people cash, but you will spend about 3 hours getting to the money, if you even make it, and you will make about $0.25 for 500-1000th place and 5 hours of your time, once again, IF you make it.

On the other hand, in a cash game, you could buy-in to a .01/.02 game for $1 and, if you play right, make that $0.25 in about 15 minutes.

Yes, they are an accomplishment IF you win them, or go deep and make a solid cash, but overall, if you can't make it deep, then you are much better off playing cash games. Once again, I am not saying that I never play MTTs, because I do, but I also can admit that they are not as winnable as a ring game is.

Goodwooter said:

most pros only make the money 40 percent of the time in MTTs...if you can develop a good game on cash tables, that is the best way to see your bankroll grow...sure its slower than a big score in a tournie...but i believe its the most secure way to build your roll

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This isn't actually correct ^^
'Good' (as in successful, profitable) MTT players are only cashing (I.T.M. "in the money") approx. 15% of the time (usually varies between ~13-15%). These are figures based upon winning players, playing in medium to higher buyin tournaments online,... ones who've played between 500 - 5,000 mtts. In lower micro buyin MTTs you will often find players who are ITM 20-30%, but the cashes are smaller as many of them are playing to just get into the money and not playing to make final tables.
I've based this info. on countless # of players, including the highest earning MTT players on Fulltilt & regular cashers in med. stakes (if you don't believe me, try looking them up.. ie. DocSands, da_professional, NEONPILS, AJKHoosier1, MoormanI, gboro, bond18, Julian Verse, Greg__Chimp, ArgentinaBoy, dsindy, daisyxoxo, The Ute, ManchVegasPwn, Big Huni,.... the list goes on.... almost all fall in at around 14-15%).

I completely agree with a couple of the posters above and have had similiar experiences to them. I personally prefer MTTs but will also spend some time playing cash tables for periods of time (always focusing on one or the other & sticking with it for awhile).

Also, the best thing at the cash tables is that if the donks suckout on you, you can just re buyin and take it to 'em. Look at it as a temporary loan. In an MTT.... BOOM.. & you're outta there.

I personally like tournaments, well because I am not that great of a cash game player. I seem to make all my money in tournaments, then just give it right back at the cash games. I am getting better though. I have been able to consistenly win at PLO cash games, so its not all bad.

cardplayer52 said:

the rake doesnt eat at your stake in a cash game. you only pay a rake on winnings hands. so if your paying rake your winning pots.

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lol.
You do realize that losing players win pots to?
And poker isnt about winning pots its about winning money!
A player could have like 80% W$SD and still be a losing player.
Most winning players have like 55-60% W$SD.

As for the MTTvsRing i say ring because u can have a bigger edges over villains when your deepstacked.

But both formats requier vastly difrent skills.

I like to play SnG's mostly turbo 6-max, however sometimes I like to throw in a MTT to mix things up

I like tournaments more than cash games... Well, you can see many fishes at cash games, but tournament is much more interesting for me... you need to think your tactics for long term to cash at the tournament.

If u want to feel the challenge , u should play a tournament...but if u are in hurry, SNG may be a solution

GCB said:

Seems to be a lot of concern about the online rake, which is understandable. But isn't one way to avoid it to stick to tournaments? Granted there are entry fees, but with no rake thereafter you don't have to worry about it slowing eating away at your stack. (Just the blinds growing.)

Anyway, I'm pretty good at online tournaments. I like the fact that they have a beginning, middle and end, and they seem by their very nature to punish stupid play more, or sooner, than cash games (once the donk is gone, he's gone for good). Plus the cost (investment) is defined. And Full Tilt is doing a good job of setting up a variety of tournament options.

I know some pros prefer cash games (e.g. Negreanu) and some tournaments (e.g. Gordon). Is there some reason one must play cash games to make a decent profit at online poker, all else being equal?

Thanks.

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I'm sure the pros play that they're best at. I agree that the rake is way to much to over come in ring games. I don't like playing ring games because of the rake. It's just too hard to win.

I've always preferred playing in MTT's,over rng's.
However,i'm enjoying the Take2 promotion on Fulltilt,and have recently done well with a reload bonus on Cakepoker.
3 to 4 hours of spare time can be hard to find for the MTT's,so an hour or so,on rng's,or a SNG,is far more suitable for me.

jolubman said:

I agree that the rake is way to much to over come in ring games. I don't like playing ring games because of the rake. It's just too hard to win.

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This is only true at micro stakes, where even a good player can struggle to beat the rake. Not so much at higher stakes, though, if you're just a decent player. This is why you should grind hard to get out of micro stakes as soon as your game and bankroll allow, say to at least 25NL or 50NL. Above the micro stakes, ring can be much more profitable over the long term once you get comfortable with it.

A complete player is that who can win both cash and tournys, but those are very rare(ex: Negreanu). Usualy a normal player should specialize only in cash or tournys... Practice is the only way to find out what you're best at...

I would consider myself a hardened micro MTT player.

Usually I multitable 3-4 MTTs or add 2-3 Sngs so the dragging effect of a long and unsuccessful MTT session is limited.

Since I'm folding 4/5 of my hole cards multitabling MTTs keeps me focused, too.

I even find time to take notes most of the time.

I played some full ring games at the beginning of my "career" and really sucked or got sucked out.

I'll give it a go again when I reach a solid BR for 10NL (approx. 400$).

But maybe MTTs just are my strong side - I get deep/reach the FT/win often enough on the minimicro levels I'm playing at.

I agree about the rake but also even if u do manage to win a stack...just as many lucky donks i the ring games as the tournaments

.....

yes far more value in the sng or tourney vs. paying rake at the cash tables. But if you are a better ring player then by all means continue to take your best EV scenario.