To Clock or not to Clock?

DonSifu · Mar 23, 2015

I'd like to hear your opinions on the idea of introducing a shot clock into poker. Good idea? Bad idea? How would you implement it? How long is good? How much time bank should you get?

Let the discussion begin!

OzExorcist · Mar 24, 2015

My local casino does it in some cash games with a simple kitchen timer - you get either 20 or 30 seconds to act (can't remember, been a while since I've played there). It's not "exact", since they only use the timer for the last 10 seconds (so chances are you get a few extra seconds on top each time).

You can buy extra time by paying a dollar, which goes straight to the pot.

I'm fine with the system, but then I'm used to multi-tabling online where you're forced to make multiple decisions in a much shorter time frame. Having 20-30 seconds available to make every decision when you've only got one hand to think about didn't seem like too big of a deal compared to that.

I can see how people who'd been playing live their whole lives might not take to it kindly though.

alexis8888 · Mar 24, 2015

Poker is not chess. 15 seconds quite enough to make the best move.

braveboat · Mar 24, 2015

I would completely support a clock in live poker. online poker already has it; live games should be no different.

baxre · Mar 24, 2015

Clock is great proposition. Game will be faster and for sure poker tv will be more popular than now.

DonSifu · Mar 24, 2015

I agree, I think a shot clock would really improve the game. In my experience, when people start to tank or 'hollywood', it almost always ends in a fold. So why waste everybody's time? I think for most of us, we know exactly what we're gonna do within 5 seconds of a decision, but then we like to hide that choice by waiting to act.
I say shot clocks for everybody!

rock0001 · Mar 24, 2015

i think there should be a clock in live games however i think you can call the clock if someone is taking too long to play, and i dont think its unethical to do that if a player is just taking too long to act, because that can affect other players especially in tournaments, maybe in cash games all the players should have a reasonable amount of time to make a decision but in mtt thats a different story

Retina · Mar 24, 2015

I agree! Poker is not chess. And on each table and the type of game is given a certain amount of time. And it makes no sense to do what there watch. Think in the allotted period of time and no stopwatch you will not need

AtiFCOD · Mar 24, 2015

I think the dealers should detect these slow playing (or acting) players and they should warn them about it and use clock if necessary. In extreme cases they should have the right to disqualify these players.
Live pro poker players have a ton of tricks. Eg Sammy Farha likes playing with his chips and acting to call/push and in the meantime he watches the reaction...

12551255 · Mar 24, 2015

yes, yes, yes. I hate slow play.

SlavaUa · Mar 24, 2015

For on-line 15 sec. it is fune, but for live it will be not comfortable, because how can you see emotion, face, behavior of you opponent within 15 sec. I think it will be a little problem.

OzExorcist · Mar 24, 2015

AtiFCOD said:
I think the dealers should detect these slow playing (or acting) players and they should warn them about it and use clock if necessary. In extreme cases they should have the right to disqualify these players.
Live pro poker players have a ton of tricks. Eg Sammy Farha likes playing with his chips and acting to call/push and in the meantime he watches the reaction...

Only way that works though is if there's a defined rule for all players, and a physical timer to refer to. You can't just have dealers being expected to make judgement calls on who's taking too long to act and who isn't.

timfbmx · Mar 24, 2015

I think everyone should have a 1 minute shot clock, plus 3 time bank chips that you can use for 1 extra minute each. I am getting sick of people taking forever to fold 9 5 off pre flop for no reason in particular.

DonSifu · Mar 25, 2015

I agree with timfbmx, except the default clock is 30 seconds; anybody seen "The Shark Tank"? They use it, and it makes for some exciting poker.
While I agree that a player has the right to call the clock, it carries a big stigma when you do; and if you do it more than once to a player? Well that just looks like you're singling out somebody out of spite.
With a defined shot clock, everybody is on equal ground, the dealer doesn't have to make any judgement calls, and nobody looks like an asshole when they excercise their right to call a clock.
I think for poker to continue to grow, it must happen.

donkcentralFF · Mar 26, 2015

DonSifu said:
I agree, I think a shot clock would really improve the game. In my experience, when people start to tank or 'hollywood', it almost always ends in a fold. So why waste everybody's time? I think for most of us, we know exactly what we're gonna do within 5 seconds of a decision, but then we like to hide that choice by waiting to act.
I say shot clocks for everybody!

OMG I hate this.. Don't get me wrong I do this when messing around at my buddys home game other than that... Never do I pull this shenanigan bs, when people do this in live tourneys or even worse $1/$2 cash games... I just want to reach across the table and slam their head on the felt.. Lol usually when their being real idiotic with the hollywood like their on espn or wpt, I almost always will ask for the dealer to call floor for a clock (just so I can be dick right back).. No ****in need to hollywood to decide if your going to call a $10 reraise lol!

xaxawa · Mar 26, 2015

I think that the time for decision shall be limited to 30 seconds.
and three additional 30 seconds.
and for the final table - three additional minutes.

ccocco · Mar 26, 2015

The clock is already at least playing online, maybe there are games that give more time than others to think, but I do not mind having time, since that crazy to impatient and poker as well as in fishing must have patience. lol

A2345Razz · Mar 29, 2015

Any thoughts of shotclocks under a minute are nonsense....no one is proposing that, and it would never happen except in instances where special "shot clock" tournaments are made.....that's simply not enough time for live poker on difficult decisions.

I DO think the dealers need to be able to prompt play and warn about a clock being called in some instances, but that needs to be backed up by a new attitude among live players to call the clock more readily/often and not be offended if the clock is called on themselves.

In cash games, I wouldn't be a fan really.....

In tournaments, honestly the biggest issue is morons who take 10 seconds to simply look at their hands and act with some damn routine that helps them 0 percent of the time. It should take you 2 secs to fold your bullsht hand preflop....why we need to see this whole act from people is beyond me.

An extra 5-8 secs EVERY HAND adds up; that's like three mins wasted every hour in most instances...and it's much worse than someone tanking for 2 mins on a river in an important spot, bc it's wholly unecessary.

cjmoles · Mar 29, 2015

You know...If everyone would just be courteous and not tank-out everytime, we wouldn't need a clock; however, there are times when one just needs a little more time to think....But, not every single freakin' play! I am all for a clock...a short one!

cjmoles · Mar 29, 2015

Oh, I multi-table too, but I rarely tank! I use the advanced action keys and already know what my next action is gonna be so I'm prepared to play fast...even with 10 or 12 tables open. An occaisional tank by villian is all good, but trying to use the clock to be deceptive or annoying doesn't work and only costs one money in the long run. More hands, more money....time IS money on the table, for the house and the player!

Syltan · Mar 29, 2015

Nothing I can say about it is not good not bad.

OzExorcist · Mar 29, 2015

A2345Razz said:
Any thoughts of shotclocks under a minute are nonsense....no one is proposing that, and it would never happen except in instances where special "shot clock" tournaments are made.....that's simply not enough time for live poker on difficult decisions.

I DO think the dealers need to be able to prompt play and warn about a clock being called in some instances, but that needs to be backed up by a new attitude among live players to call the clock more readily/often and not be offended if the clock is called on themselves.

Actually, I'm pretty sure there are some where the shot clock is already under a minute. IIRC my local casino has used a 30-second shot clock in cash games.

I've gotta disagree again about getting the dealers involved in this too - at least, more than they already are. A good dealer should already be reminding people that it's their turn to act and prompting them to act in a timely manner. The only way that having them call time on a player will ever work though is if you implement the shot clock as well, so they've got a fixed rule to work with.

I can only imagine it'd be an even bigger nightmare for dealers who work for tips: the incentive for them is to call time every action, because the more hands they get to deal the more tips they could make... except if the players end up hating them because they're constantly calling time, then they'll be less inclined to tip them. Ouch.

dexon303 · Mar 29, 2015

Time is the limiting factor.

A2345Razz · Mar 29, 2015

OzExorcist said:
Actually, I'm pretty sure there are some where the shot clock is already under a minute. IIRC my local casino has used a 30-second shot clock in cash games.

I've gotta disagree again about getting the dealers involved in this too - at least, more than they already are. A good dealer should already be reminding people that it's their turn to act and prompting them to act in a timely manner. The only way that having them call time on a player will ever work though is if you implement the shot clock as well, so they've got a fixed rule to work with.

I can only imagine it'd be an even bigger nightmare for dealers who work for tips: the incentive for them is to call time every action, because the more hands they get to deal the more tips they could make... except if the players end up hating them because they're constantly calling time, then they'll be less inclined to tip them. Ouch.

I'd be very interested to see NORMAL CASH GAME TABLES (NOT special advertised shot clock promotional tables) all being equipped and using 30 sec. clocks for cash game play over and extended length of time...not some trial period promotion;/

PLEASE LINK US TO SOME EVIDENCE OF THIS ....i'd be more than interested.

OzExorcist · Mar 29, 2015

A2345Razz said:
I'd be very interested to see NORMAL CASH GAME TABLES (NOT special advertised shot clock promotional tables) all being equipped and using 30 sec. clocks for cash game play over and extended length of time...not some trial period promotion;/

PLEASE LINK US TO SOME EVIDENCE OF THIS ....i'd be more than interested.

Here's the card room link: https://www.crownpoker.com.au/cash-games

It's the $1/$3 game, they advertise it as "turbo" so you know it's got the shot clock. Been a few years since I've played there, they were doing it then (in a $2/$3 game before they changed it to $1/$3) so it's been going for quite some time, it's not just some short time promo or trial period or anything. And they don't offer a non-turbo alternative at those stakes.

You can buy an extra 30 seconds of thinking time for $1, goes straight into the pot.

They don't use special tables for it or anything, the dealers just have an ordinary kitchen timer.

Here's the thing too: I'm saying it's 30 seconds because that's what I remember and I'm 99% sure I'm right about that. It's possible it might only be 20 seconds, because they regularly run tournaments where that's the time allowed (many, but not all, are satellites but still: http://www.crownpoker.com.au/tournament-schedule and put 'shot clock' into the search bar, you'll see them)

To Clock or not to Clock?

DonSifu

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OzExorcist

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alexis8888

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braveboat

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baxre

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DonSifu

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rock0001

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Retina

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AtiFCOD

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12551255

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SlavaUa

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OzExorcist

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timfbmx

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DonSifu

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donkcentralFF

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xaxawa

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ccocco

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A2345Razz

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cjmoles

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cjmoles

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Syltan

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OzExorcist

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dexon303

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A2345Razz

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OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle

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