controversial hand

S3mper · Aug 27, 2013

What is your thinking on this hand?

cardsking · Aug 28, 2013

I did not understand what happend at the end !!

He called but the clock time is over ? And so he folded

Wat really happpend there

Emperor IX · Aug 28, 2013

Wow, that's terrible. I never watched any of the coverage of 2010 so I missed this, but I can't imagine that those cameras do not have playback built in. How do they miss that call? Prahlad clearly called before the hand was declared dead.

4evertilted · Aug 28, 2013

Sure, but there is no replay in poker yet

Emperor IX · Aug 28, 2013

4evertilted said:
Sure, but there is no replay in poker yet

Regardless, the floor guy needs to pay attention to the action in a situation like this. He didn't, and he needed to be reprimanded for it.

Michael Paler · Aug 28, 2013

Yes, I have seen this one before. I think it was just so loud and the player said "call" so low and so close to the end of the countdown that the guy counting down didn't catch it. This rule was recently changed, maybe just because of this hand.

If you think that was bad, this one was just BRUTAL!! Some changes to the rules apply to this as well.

JusSumguy · Aug 28, 2013

This is so wrong...

MisterLongFace · Aug 28, 2013

watched all these videos. a lot of wrongness going on here.

esp that last one. guy puts all his chips at risk, and they let him off the hook because he made a mistake.
but what happened with the dealer on that one. the dealer must have screwed up too right?
because the dealer shouldn't receive the cards into the muck if they are dealing and know another player is still in the hand.

ScottishMatt · Aug 28, 2013

Seen these before. That last one was particularly brutal. IMO they could have at least asked Koroknai what he had, checked the muck, calculated his equity vs KK and then gave Baumann KK's share of his stack.

I've actually seen Baumann in two of these disasters, both taking the brunt of another's mistakes. Pretty sick, especially this one. If that didn't happen like that she may well have made the final table. Their horrible ruling had a direct affect on the outcome of the ME. Which is simply the worst way it could have went down IMO. Rulings should be used to correct mistakes and give a course of action that leads to what would have happened if a mistake hadn't been made.

It would also have been great publicity for them if they hadn't ****ed up. Female at the final table of the ME? Yes please.

WeenieSVK · Aug 28, 2013

Watched it all. I saw second video before, that guy is douche lol... That first hand? I cant believe something like that can happen at wsop. It was so clear that Friedman made call before his hand was dead.. that floorman was kind of stupid lol...

Airburn · Aug 28, 2013

This is making me angry and Im not even in the hand! Cant they just use common sense sometimes? damn those are horrible calls

Michael Paler · Aug 28, 2013

Yes, that last one was a little bit of a catch 22. With no cards you cannot take the players word on what he had. Nor can you reliably fish it out of the muck pile. Nor can you put a player with no cards up against another player's hand.

Honestly, however, I think that they made 1/2 of the correct decision; he should have received a penalty of a one round sitout to go with the 60k he had to pay.

As we did not see the part where he mucked he might have actually done it on purpose (might have). I mean, they allowed him to save his MTT life, but it is clearly the players responsibility to pay attention at the table, so it adversely affected her as well. I understand mistakes can happen and it's a brutal pace with lots of pressure, still - it's up to you to know where your at and what is going on regardless of stress.

dragic1 · Aug 28, 2013

Dealers go through so much training and deal thousands upon thousands of hands. It's a shame that at such an important stage mistakes like that happen, you've gotta feel for Baumann.

robhimself · Aug 28, 2013

All floor decisions are final, that's it. If the floor says dead hand, no call, that's what happens.

Juanes1913 · Aug 28, 2013

WTF ???
It was pretty crazy!

Emperor IX · Aug 28, 2013

robhimself said:
All floor decisions are final, that's it. If the floor says dead hand, no call, that's what happens.

But the point is that the floor man mistakenly declared dead hand after Friedman made the call. He needs to pay more attention to the action when counting down because he clearly missed it.

Henreiman · Aug 28, 2013

There's not too much to say...it seems clear Prahlad called, but the wrong decision was made. They don't have access to instant replay, much like umpiring in baseball, and so the call had to stand. Were it a $200 event, Prahlad may have been honorable and given the guy his chips...but in the main event, no way.

Emperor IX · Aug 28, 2013

Henreiman said:
There's not too much to say...it seems clear Prahlad called, but the wrong decision was made. They don't have access to instant replay, much like umpiring in baseball, and so the call had to stand. Were it a $200 event, Prahlad may have been honorable and given the guy his chips...but in the main event, no way.

eh, he's never seemed very honorable to me. I'm not at all surprised by his move.

S3mper · Aug 28, 2013

Emperor IX said:
eh, he's never seemed very honorable to me. I'm not at all surprised by his move.

Honorable or not I doubt most poker players would be like "yeah I called gg guys" I know I wouldn't I would of thrown my cards into the muck and mixed them with the muck before the dealer could do it herself that way they couldn't retrieve my cards lol

chiangmaijim · Aug 28, 2013

If you make decisions on close calls for a living you will make some of them wrong. Anybody who doesn't understand that has never been in that situation.

MisterLongFace · Aug 29, 2013

i watched that Prahlad hand again and something i didn't notice before, when Prahlad says "I call" the dealer lady then announces "He Call!"

you can see and hear it a lot more clearly on the replay of the incident (5:05 of the video) they show at the very end . makes me wonder if the floorman heard her and not him. Prahlad was clearly before the zero count while the dealer announcement was right after.

Fuffufnick · Sep 1, 2013

MisterLongFace said:
i watched that Prahlad hand again and something i didn't notice before, when Prahlad says "I call" the dealer lady then announces "He Call!"

you can see and hear it a lot more clearly on the replay of the incident (5:05 of the video) they show at the very end . makes me wonder if the floorman heard her and not him. Prahlad was clearly before the zero count while the dealer announcement was right after.

Exactly what I was thinking and with the commotion around the table I'd bet that's just what happened. In the Baumann hand, though I feel for her and also believe it is doubtless those chips would have gotten her a FT berth, it had to have been an honest mistake. If not, her opponent took an incredibly huge gamble in muking his hand and hoping for a favorable decision. (Though, it may have been a calculated risk, with better odds, if he was bluffing and/or knew he was otherwise beat; certain death vs. any chance at all.) Finally, in the second video, what a shameless, disgusting and dishonorable act! In a time like this, at which players are working to bring poker out of shadowy, dark rooms and bring respectability to the game, to have a guy pull something like this is intolerable. It was cheating pure and simple and as such he should be barred from tournament poker for life not only as a punishment but also to made an example to those who may try this themselves. Jeeze!!! How can anyone so low and untrustworthy have any friends at all?

PoKeRFoRNiA · Sep 1, 2013

Omg, that hand where Baumann got robbed of, I guess according to their rule, I can bluff all-in, and if I am called, I can simply muck my hand into discard pile and it'll be fine since I just have to pay the 2-bet raise. Beautiful. I honestly don't understand that ruling.

Anyways, Gotta love European chicks. European women certainly are the best female poker players in the world. Annette Obrestad, Elizabeth Hille, Gaelle Baumann, Liv Boeree, Kara Scott, etc. I wanted to see Gaelle or Elizabeth make the final table. Too bad they both bubbled out.

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