Do you agree with this statement?

t1riel · Nov 4, 2011

I came up with this statement but don't really say it that much becuase I'm not really sure how many people believe it. This is geared to tournament poker, not cash games. Vote on the poll above and explain your answer by posting to this thread. I'm interested to hear what other poker players have to say.

baudib1 · Nov 4, 2011

it depends

Egon Towst · Nov 4, 2011

It`s certainly a widely held belief, but it`s not one I subscribe to. The high blind, high tension atmosphere of the Final Table requires steady nerves and a very good appreciation of short-stack tactics. It`s something that few tournament players enjoy, and it`s tough to build up a body of experience, because it`s obviously difficult to reach a lot of final tables.

Personally, I feel I have a more noticeable edge over the field at the Final Table than at any other point in the tourney. I don`t any longer know how many FTs I have played, because I stopped counting once I got into three figures, but I am sure it`s far more than most of my opponents.

The final table is like most other aspects of poker - the more you practice, the "luckier" you get.

WurlyQ · Nov 4, 2011

Cake. This probably tends to be true because skill plays a larger factor with deeper stacks but as has been previously pointed out, skill may play a larger role if your edge increases over the remaining players if you have excellent shorthanded play.

NEWTDOG101 · Nov 4, 2011

With "Skill" you can spot out the lucky player at ur table and avoid him as much as possible. (Cause he wins every hand right? lol) But when u reach the final table and see the lucky player sitting across from u, u will need more "luck" to TID. (Sometimes)

BluffYou123 · Nov 4, 2011

I would say a combination of luck and skill. Skill to get your chips in 70/30 and luck to have your hands hold up multiple times. Skill to pick good spots to steal and resteal. Inevitably, you will get your chips in or call an all in when you are behind and you need luck to win these hands.

Nathan Williams · Nov 4, 2011

I voted for cake too. Ya seriously, it's tough to answer this. Generally I guess I would disagree. I tend to look at poker as a long term thing. There is very little luck in the long run imo.

KingCurtis · Nov 4, 2011

I voted false. I run like a Kenyan in tournaments.

baudib1 · Nov 4, 2011

Luck isn't the right word, it's variance.

Based on chip stacks and skill, Benba, O'Dea and Phil Collins should have a pretty good edge over the field in the Nov. 9. But it's been quite a long while since the best play at the FT won the ME.

KingCurtis · Nov 4, 2011

baudib1 said:
it depends

oh and PLUS ONE

BluffYou123 · Nov 4, 2011

My post above was in relation to taking down 1 single tournament. In the long run, for sure SKILL is the main factor.

Stu_Ungar · Nov 4, 2011

I think it generally depends upon the average stack size you reach the final table with.

If everyone gets to the final table with very short stacks then they will be simply playing shove or fold. There is some skill involved in shove and fold but its relatively easy to learn the list of hands you have to shove with. So if the strategy is simple and almost everyone knows it, then any skill advantage is reduced or even cancelled out.

Charade You Are · Nov 4, 2011

False. I would say luck gets you to the final table IN A SINGLE TOURNAMENT, and skill helps you win.

Either statement is an over-simplification. You can't make the final table in an MTT without surviving filps and getting a few suckouts. Call it variance or luck or whatever, luck matters. If you bust with AA vs AK there's not much you can do about it. The guy that is running hot has the edge.

BlueNowhere · Nov 4, 2011

Can't really answer. Skill and luck take you to the FT and then skill and luck wins the FT. I've seen the biggest luckbox ever take down a 180 man tourney. 4 all ins and he called with 2's, everyone missed all the cards. All the way through he was just winning. He was dominated several times on the FT and still managed to win it. Probably hasn't won another one since then though.

RamdeeBen · Nov 4, 2011

This is so far from the truth.

Skill doesn't get you to the final table, infact it's the other way around.

If you can get past 1000+ people then you will of faced some all-ins preflop (fact) thus playing for flips several times. You win your flips and hell sometimes you get your chips in bad and hit runner/runner/sets/two pairs etcetc and double up etc.

By the time you get to the final table, people are actually usually quite deep again and poker can be played again and you usually see the fish bust first and you end up with the top 3 playing out for 1st place.

Obviously you need some luck towards the end and usually end up flipping at some point on a final table, especially when it gets to 3 and 4 handed but in general I think you need to be taking flips prior to reaching the FT of a tournament, thus meaning you need more "luck" to hit that FT of course though skill is required too in most cases unless your the best luckbox in the world.

BluffYou123 · Nov 4, 2011

Charade You Are said:
False. I would say luck gets you to the final table IN A SINGLE TOURNAMENT, and skill helps you win.

Either statement is an over-simplification. You can't make the final table in an MTT without surviving filps and getting a few suckouts. Call it variance or luck or whatever, luck matters. If you bust with AA vs AK there's not much you can do about it. The guy that is running hot has the edge.

^This

If skill wasn't a huge factor, the biggest MTT winners wouldn't be the biggest MTT winners. It's all about knowing good situations and capitalising on them.

naruto_miu · Nov 4, 2011

I mean I'd think that statement would depend on the player+Skill level+Buy in (Yet not so much Buy-in but Majority of micro players don't give a damn what you have as long as they have something)....

So it's a yes and no...

Example would be that Most micros are either A.I pre, and or Raise+Multiple callers and then on most flops in a multiway pot someone usually wont let go of anything and thus your in trouble...Now in some mid level buy-ins ppl tend to let go of most things until they get a read on your plays and/or they have something they're willing to play with...

jsaw · Nov 4, 2011

Depends on the tourney, the initial chip count, and the length of the blinds. In on online turbo tourney with blinds going up every three minutes its a crapshoot; but with longer blind periods I think more skill is necessary. But since this is a game of chance and probability "luck" is always a factor.

Stu_Ungar · Nov 4, 2011

Not all tournaments are equal.

The blind structure dictates the amount of skill advantage a skillful player has.

Its entirely possible to create blind structures that negate all player skill.

Tenaciousplayer · Nov 4, 2011

Now there are those who win by extreme luck and very little skill, but I believe you have to have some knowledge of the game and skill. First in the beginning you have to work at building your bank and maintaining it, thus knowing when and what to play, then you have to know how to dominate the table to insure you don't lose your stack and at the same time positioning yourself to actually win and not just place yourself in the money, then at the final table patience is very much needed cause now you have to overcome those short stacks who will push in at each opportunity looking to double up, so skill is needed just as much as the luck of the cards.

Ernster86 · Nov 4, 2011

A little bit of skill and a whole lot of luck.

PurgatoryD · Nov 8, 2011

For a single tournament, you can't do it on luck alone, and you certainly can't do it on skill alone. That's why no one should judge success based on a single tourney. That's why the winner of the World Series main event is not necessarily the best player in the tournament.

Do you agree with this statement?

Skill gets you to the final table, luck wins you the tournament.

True

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