Drawing hands

ryryflyhigh · Oct 18, 2008

When is it better to play 7/9 suited or 8/10 suited with a big stack or a low stack?

snowsurfer31 · Oct 18, 2008

If I'm short stacked, I wouldn't play it, because the odds show that most of the time nothing will come, so don't waste the chips. But with a big stack, when calling blinds does't affect you, it can be rewarding.

The_OG_Rocco · Oct 19, 2008

"It depends".

If you are in the big blind and can see the flop at a good rate, then play it whether short stacked or not.

If short stacked and not in the blinds, then muck it.

If big stacked and feeling froggy, see the flop with it if the price is right.

Jayson745 · Oct 19, 2008

I love playing hands like that, but only if I think I'll get paid off if I hit. If 6 people limp, I'm playing it. If its likely gonna be me and the blinds, I dont waste the chips.

Mortis · Oct 19, 2008

The_OG_Rocco said:
"It depends".

If you are in the big blind and can see the flop at a good rate, then play it whether short stacked or not.

If short stacked and not in the blinds, then muck it.

If big stacked and feeling froggy, see the flop with it if the price is right.

^ what he said.

Exit141RTe1 · Oct 19, 2008

J9 Suited. If all limping, then I am limpen too. This hand seems to suck out too many times to muck it.

Betting starts getting crazy then in the muck.

MrMuckets · Oct 20, 2008

With me, It's about position. CO or Button I almost always play them.

zachvac · Oct 20, 2008

Jayson745 said:
I love playing hands like that, but only if I think I'll get paid off if I hit. If 6 people limp, I'm playing it. If its likely gonna be me and the blinds, I dont waste the chips.

The problem is as far as big hands go, you're not going to make very many. If you hit 2 pair and get one of the 6 limpers to stack it's likely they have a set or better 2 pair. People talk all about odds but you also have to consider that you now have to beat 6 hands. Also remember that if you flop big you likely aren't getting paid unless you're beat. Sure you have the players who will pay you off with top pair when 7 people saw the flop, but generally in multi-way pots you're not going to get all the money in against someone with 1 pair.

dougle14 · Oct 20, 2008

I like playing those kinds of hands on the button... Here's what I'm thinking: If you raise preflop on the button and get 1 or 2 callers, they are likely to check to you, so if you do hit some kind of draw or even your hand on the flop, you can get the option of seeing a free card and possibly slow playing your hand. I never call a raise with this kind of hand out of position, and will even fold it with a large raise from someone out of position when I am on the button.

BelgoSuisse · Oct 20, 2008

zachvac said:
The problem is as far as big hands go, you're not going to make very many. If you hit 2 pair and get one of the 6 limpers to stack it's likely they have a set or better 2 pair. People talk all about odds but you also have to consider that you now have to beat 6 hands. Also remember that if you flop big you likely aren't getting paid unless you're beat. Sure you have the players who will pay you off with top pair when 7 people saw the flop, but generally in multi-way pots you're not going to get all the money in against someone with 1 pair.

^^^^ this.

when you play hands like small pocket pairs, connectors, suited one-gapers and so on, you either want to

1. flat call an earlier raiser because he usually has a very good hand and that means great implied odds when you hit.

2. open-raise or raise limpers in position, as you don't need to hit here to take the pot down as most of the time a cbet will suffice. And when you hit you will have deception on your side, which also increases your implied odds.

the only time i like to limp along is when i'm in the blinds.

Jayson745 · Oct 20, 2008

I guess I should have explained better. When I play a hand like that against 6 people I'm not looking for top pair, I'm looking for a straight or a flush. Let the other guy hit 2 pair.

KyleJRM · Oct 20, 2008

One of the best tournament players I ever saw would insist that the only time to play these was shoving when you are very shortstacked.

His reasoning was that you are going to get called by players with high cards, and increasing your chances of having two live cards was important, rather than getting caught in A6 vs. AK situations.

KyleJRM · Oct 20, 2008

Jayson745 said:
I guess I should have explained better. When I play a hand like that against 6 people I'm not looking for top pair, I'm looking for a straight or a flush. Let the other guy hit 2 pair.

Or an overflush.

zachvac · Oct 20, 2008

KyleJRM said:
One of the best tournament players I ever saw would insist that the only time to play these was shoving when you are very shortstacked.

His reasoning was that you are going to get called by players with high cards, and increasing your chances of having two live cards was important, rather than getting caught in A6 vs. AK situations.

Only problem with that is when the opponent knows that since you're short and shoving a wide range will call with Ax knowing he's crushing your range. Sucks when you shove 2 low cards like 56s and get called by A5

.

Stu_Ungar · Oct 21, 2008

Question for Zach....

What would you advocate playing whilst short stacked?

a) in a ring game.
b) in a tournament.

Assume a full ring table unless you would like to expand to 6 max and sy 4 max.

I know it all depends.. but give us a general idea !!!

dkee18 · Oct 21, 2008

I play these hands depending on my position. If there are a lot of people calling behind me, I generally don't bother to call because by the time everyone has played, it may cost me 3-4 times the BB and I would have to fold anyway.

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