Early position pushing range when short in a tournament?

You're in the late stages of an MTT and are already in the money at a 9-handed table. The blinds are large and there are antes in play, and you have 10 times the big blind in your stack. You're in early position so the blinds are about to hit you, and the amount of chips in the pot is equal to approximately 20% of your stack. None of your opponents have shown unusual aggression or have been calling too light.

What's your pushing range here? What's the weakest hand with which you'd shove all your chips in the middle?

I think this is a good post, not sure why it hasn't gotten noticed yet...

That being said another factor is how close you are to another bubble, ie moving up in the money. Obviously if only a few players being eliminated would burst the next payout bubble my range would tighten up significantly (depending on how big of a jump in money is.)

Under normal conditions though i'd say my open shoving range on a table where no one has really gotten out of line, and having an M of ~5, would be 66+,A9s+,ATo+, and KQo+. KJ may fit in there somewhere, but personally i cringe when looking at KJ.

l Love Beer said:

... i cringe when looking at KJ.

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I feel the exact same way :+)

Regarding the original post, I would play like a rock in that case, i.e. waiting for a monster hand to play. Eventually, if I don't get it, I will go lower and lower with chips which will eventually make me go ALL IN with an avg. hand. If I lose with the avg. hand, well then, game over, if not, then I repeat playing like a rock hoping to double up or triple and counting on the fact that people will 'kill each other' while I sit back and watch...

What made me start thinking about this was pushing with ATo in this situation in yesterday's $250K Guaranteed at Bodog, running up against both KK and JJ (bad timing, I know), and wondering whether it would make more sense to sacrifice another couple of blinds and a few antes for a better situation. My conclusion is that it would.

I wasn't terribly near another money bubble but it was in sight (another 9 players and eliminations were happening very slowly) and I was one of the shortest stacks in the tournament at that time, though not THE shortest. It stings a little that someone else who had a stack size very near mine at times came back to win the whole thing and 56K+. I'm not usually a jealous person, but damn....

I'm limping AA-JJ,

raising 2.5bb 77-TT AK,AQ,AJ

and shoving 22-66

(I might limp some other stuff but that's a very long post).

To my mind people shove with 10-15bb in situations they don't need to waaaaaaay to often. When you shove you want fold equity or people calling with hands that at worst leave you live, usually give you a flip and occassionally allow you dominate.

Move this situaiton to the CO+1 and on and it changes a lot but in ep just bide your time rather than shoving AT and getting called by AJ in the BB.

Thanks for the insight, Rex. Twice recently I've regretted shoving with about 10BB and it's made me give it a lot of thought. I'm going to try and stop looking at it as a "magic number" and instead consider the hands, position and opponents more than the stack size -- not that I don't already do that, but emphasis on each needs to shift a little.

Of course, had the outcome of the hand been different I wouldn't be fussing so much over it. Water under the bridge, learning experience and all that....

roundcat said:

Twice recently I've regretted shoving with about 10BB and it's made me give it a lot of thought. I'm going to try and stop looking at it as a "magic number" and instead consider the hands, position and opponents more than the stack size -- not that I don't already do that, but emphasis on each needs to shift a little.

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I think that's spot on. People get to 10bb and panic. There's a lot of play left with a short stack (even down to 8bb), and when the average in most MTTs is 25-30bbs at the business end it's never that far from being back in business. Of course, as you rightly point out, context is everything and I'm shoving J8o with 15bb if the time is right

good post. at 10x bb late in trny i think my shoving range would drop to about 77-99 or like a10 os. anything lower then that is truly a gamble at this point when u know one of the taller stacks will call ure all in with a weak ace or even 55 to get another person eliminated from the trny.

the biggest factor as to what I would push comes down to how likely I think the bb will call...sound kinda silly but usually unless someone has a pretty big hand the bb is the one who might be either priced in,ready to gamble or can afford it...if I think the bb might call me light I want high cards,a10 or better,kq,88 or better something like that...if I think the bb will fold due to stack size or how they have been playing I would rather push with mid connectors like 910s j10s due to the fact that if you get a call from somebody else with a big ace or a pair you might have live cards or at least flush and straight chances...I don't like pushing early with small pairs at all...you are either crushed or up against 2 overs every time

This may sound crazy but hear me out. I think you can shove almost any hand here(97, 87, T8, Q7 etc.). Maybe not hands like..82, 73, 92, T5 and such. Think about it this way you are danger of going out soon anyway. You should get a little more respect push in EP and you can pick up much needed blinds. If you get call you are not in too bad of shape against hand like AK or AQ and might draw out against better hands. The thing to remember is you have to use your FE while you still have it. I have seen some very good players do this all the time. If you are in the money you should try build up enough chips to make the final table and if you go out you are still going to make something. I think if you short stacked and nobody has enters the pot yet, you can shove almost atc. In short... go down fighting.