Flopping a set when flop is paired

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

Let's say your holding J Q and the board flops Q 7 Q. There are no flush draws to speak of and you are in late position. What do you do here? I run into this quite often and I've tried betting small and slow playing. It usually ends up me winning the pot with no value added. How can I up my odds on maximizing the pot?

pantin007 · Jul 30, 2008

the hand u describe is called trips but to really help u, we need to know ur table image, how has villain been playing, ur stack compared to blinds
but 1 think i could tell u is that slow playing everytime is not really the best thing to do, u have to balance ur plays and raise someones and thinks like that

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

Okay, I understand table image, and I usually have a pretty good one. I don't understand what "villain" means. And I'm talking about when my stack is in good shape.

pantin007 · Jul 30, 2008

villain is ur opponent
by good shape, what do u mean? like 100bb deep?
what do u mean by pretty good table image? tight, aggro, nit?

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

Ahhh, okay, I tried to pick up on that in several posts, but some had two diff opponents so that didn't click.

Most of the time I'm playing freerolls, here lately so they're pretty loose/aggressive. But lets say they're playing pretty tight and just limped in. I can guess what to do against loose/aggresive.

WVHillbilly · Jul 30, 2008

As a general rule you're looking to play a big pot when you flop trips, so generally betting is the thing to do. Slow playing does nothing to build the pot and allows your opponent(s) to see cards that could allow them to beat you.

The flop texture obviously comes into play here as well. You should be more likely to bet when the board is 2 suited or it contains other high cards that are more likely to be in your opponents hand(s). Also realize that in limped pots most players are NOT looking to play for stacks. So unless they've hit a monster (or they're just really bad), even though you'd like the pot to get big, generally a medium sized pot is the best you can expect to win when you flop trips.

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

Thanks WV. I will start trying that and see what happens. Sounds like maybe I'm expecting a little too much from these types of hands.

JoeShowdown · Jul 30, 2008

I bet strong regardless of late or early position when I flop trips. By betting strong - like double the pot - people think I'm bluffing and I get called or reraised a good pct of the time. I either win the pot right there or win a big pot. Small pot wins aren't worth it because you need to chip up or get desperate. So why not win big and make them pay to outdraw you.

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

JoeShowdown said:
I bet strong regardless of late or early position when I flop trips. By betting strong - like double the pot - people think I'm bluffing and I get called or reraised a good pct of the time. I either win the pot right there or win a big pot. Small pot wins aren't worth it because you need to chip up or get desperate. So why not win big and make them pay to outdraw you.

Because they might outdraw you!

WVHillbilly · Jul 30, 2008

dg1267 said:
Thanks WV. I will start trying that and see what happens. Sounds like maybe I'm expecting a little too much from these types of hands.

The final pot size really depends on your opponent's hand more than yours. Since they've limped preflop and we can account for 3 Queens we're not expecting too many monsters (I think there are only like 14 hand combos that beat you here, 77,Q7,QK,QA). About the only hands you'll get real value from on flops like this are drawing hands. Outside of that you might get a bet or 2 from a smaller pocket pair, but don't expect to win big.

KingCurtis · Jul 30, 2008

Also on the the whole slow playing thing...ask yourself what they are calling with, or betting with when there is only 1 other Q out there, so instead of slowplaying like you, they may be doing the correct thing by betting, and then your slow playing the whole time calling his bets, then on the river when you reraise, he calls or pushes instantly with the better Q and kicker....think about it....

edit: wow WV, you and I both posted the similar thing at the same time

...although yours more technical and understandable

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

KingCurtis said:
Also on the the whole slow playing thing...ask yourself what they are calling with, or betting with when there is only 1 other Q out there, so instead of slowplaying like you, they may be doing the correct thing by betting and then your slow playing the whole time calling his bets then on the river when you reraise he calls or pushes instantly with the better Q and kicker....think about it....

See, that's what I hate about these hands. That is the way I tend to think when I'm in this situation. Now I'm gonna have nightmares tonight. Thanks a lot!

gn2056 · Jul 30, 2008

A lot of pros suggest always betting a set when you hit on the flop, either with the board paird or a pocket pair hitting on flop. They believe in the long run this is to be the most profitable, it makes sense especially if it looks like a continuation bet or a buy as it will often lead to a reraise.

KingCurtis · Jul 30, 2008

Although another thing I see a lot at the lower stakes is mid pairs like 99-JJ limping then calling the whole way not beleiving you have the Q since thee are 2 out there, but JJ is iffy and ussually is a raise PF....but i can def see getting some money out of 88-99, when they call you down the whole way if your betting.

gn2056 · Jul 30, 2008

Also the hand you are describing wouldb't be that one hundred percent sure if I got called or reraised that I had best hand, I cant tell you the number of times I have seen trips with a jack kicker lose to a better hand I would still approach that hand aggressively...but with some tactfulness.

WVHillbilly · Jul 30, 2008

KingCurtis said:
Also on the the whole slow playing thing...ask yourself what they are calling with, or betting with when there is only 1 other Q out there, so instead of slowplaying like you, they may be doing the correct thing by betting, and then your slow playing the whole time calling his bets, then on the river when you reraise, he calls or pushes instantly with the better Q and kicker....think about it....

edit: wow WV, you and I both posted the similar thing at the same time ...although yours more technical and understandable

You know, strangely enough KC, I nearly ended my last post with your basic premise; That if they want to play for a big pot, we may just be the one losing it.

Also dg1267, please note the first answer above about trips vs. sets. While it may seem like a trivial semantics issue, they are VERY different hands. Only one person can have a set, while 2 people can hold trips. With a set you have NO kicker problems. With trips kickers are always an issue. Sets are STRONG hands that usually win big pots. Trips are good hands that usually lose in big pots.

Wolfpack43ACC · Jul 30, 2008

WVHillbilly said:
As a general rule you're looking to play a big pot when you flop trips, so generally betting is the thing to do. Slow playing does nothing to build the pot and allows your opponent(s) to see cards that could allow them to beat you.

The flop texture obviously comes into play here as well. You should be more likely to bet when the board is 2 suited or it contains other high cards that are more likely to be in your opponents hand(s). Also realize that in limped pots most players are NOT looking to play for stacks. So unless they've hit a monster (or they're just really bad), even though you'd like the pot to get big, generally a medium sized pot is the best you can expect to win when you flop trips.

Agree 100% here. Everything he said is spot on. Too many times people will flop trips and check it twice sometimes. This is just asking for trouble and allowing the villain to see more cards. I don't mind betting out with flopped trips because it makes it difficult for your opponent to put you on that hand because they assume majority of the time their oppo will check trips.

dg1267 · Jul 30, 2008

Okay, I was having an issue about the difference between sets and trips and I think that cleared it up. Thanks WV.

ButtonDog · Jul 31, 2008

I like to throw in a feeler bet, depending the size of my own stack because the Jack kicker worries me. A King Queen or Ace Queen in the other hands have me worried. I don't know how many times I have been out kicked in those situations, so I am gun shy.

Sheepodog · Jul 31, 2008

WVHillbilly said:
Also dg1267, please note the first answer above about trips vs. sets. While it may seem like a trivial semantics issue, they are VERY different hands. Only one person can have a set, while 2 people can hold trips. With a set you have NO kicker problems. With trips kickers are always an issue. Sets are STRONG hands that usually win big pots. Trips are good hands that usually lose in big pots.

Ummmm....

WHUT???

...LOL!! As I ponder this, I'm thinking to myself that "trips", "a set", and "three of a kind" is just an interchangeable descriptive of the same thing. I wonder if this is something to worry about?:stupido: :joyman: :stupido: ....doggie wanders off and starts to wonder if a pair of threes is as strong as 2 treys......maybe a boat isn't as strong as a full house...now where did I leave my scooby treats?

Goldog · Jul 31, 2008

Sheepdog, let me put this in a way you an understand, dog to dog.

ARF Arf ARFARFARF arf aRF GRRRR arf arf (wags tail)

Say you see a cat laying under a tree. As you approach you notice it IS a cat but has stripes and is MUCH larger than you! You are still in a dog vs cat match up but no longer a favorite

So the OP has "trip" Qs. If the villain had a "set" of 7s it would make a full house. And like they say in Jaws, "we're gonna need a bigger boat".

teksmith · Jul 31, 2008

I usually check/call trips or a set on the flop. It seems if I bet out on the flop everyone goes away and I don't get paid off. If nobody bets or raises the river, I'll bet the pot or call.

dg1267 · Jul 31, 2008

In other words, a set is two in your hand and one on the board, where trips is two on the board and one in your hand.

With a set it's less likely to get beat because they can't boat on you with pockets.

Is that correct?

hastetheday · Aug 22, 2008

I don't agree with slowplaying in this situation, but smaller bets to make them pay for the next card is always good, just gotta be careful with the draws.

Flopping a set when flop is paired

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