Fold QQ to make money?

ROCKNROLLA426 · Nov 11, 2009

So I'm sitting at my favorite SnG on Fulltilt; 90 ppl 3+30 knockout turbo. I'm in 5th out of 13 and top 9 cash,I have QQ. I get get pushed all-in preflop by this guy who is 2 out of 13. I called he had KQ, hit a king and knocked me out.

Should I have folded becuase I was so close to the money? or was it the right call?

-Rock

PattyR · Nov 12, 2009

depends on position, stack sizes, etc.

but from what you gave their is no way im folding QQ preflop...he was a huge underdog but that happens..gotta gamble

CUJO3113 · Nov 12, 2009

IMO I think you made the right call !!... QQ pre flop is a very strong hand... KQ not that it isnt strong just dont think I would be pushing people all in with it IMO.. I would make that call every time... Now weather or not you should have folded it too make money or not is you own opinion lol.. I know not much help but I do make that call every time

ROCKNROLLA426 · Nov 12, 2009

thanks for the post guys.

-Rock

JLtrooper · Nov 12, 2009

Like Patty said, there are a lot of factors involved, but I would've called. Plus, it is a turbo so you have to capitalize on premium hands whenever you can.

Crudelis · Nov 12, 2009

If it was a MTT (not a turbo) then I would fold if he had me covered in chips simply because the fact that i've played for hours and am not going to risk not cashing. But then again I have folded QQs in a MTT before (I did cash) and then was moved to a table where everyone had twice as many chips as me and got knocked out anyway. (Might not have if I played the Qs and doubled up.

Since it was a turbo though I would have called.

kevkojak · Nov 12, 2009

Yea these $3 KO games only take about an hour to reach the final table, so i'm guessing you hadn't invested all night on this one game.
Its easy to fall into folding everything just to make the final table here, but folding QQ in these sort of games is a very negative play. You definately made the right call here. Play to win, not just limp into the cash.
Bottom spot only pays 2x buy-in if I remember rightly, whereas 1st is a tasty $72 (+plus any KO's along the way). A double through here would have put you in contention for a high finish, and punished the other guys poor move with KQ. Keep it up, very unlucky this time.

CAMurray · Nov 12, 2009

kevkojak said:
Yea these $3 KO games only take about an hour to reach the final table, so i'm guessing you hadn't invested all night on this one game.
Its easy to fall into folding everything just to make the final table here, but folding QQ in these sort of games is a very negative play. You definately made the right call here. Play to win, not just limp into the cash.
Bottom spot only pays 2x buy-in if I remember rightly, whereas 1st is a tasty $72 (+plus any KO's along the way). A double through here would have put you in contention for a high finish, and punished the other guys poor move with KQ. Keep it up, very unlucky this time.

I totally agree.

This is the exact reason Ivey did'ent get further @ the wsop final table. He was too easily pushed off his Jacks by a pair of 7s. You made the right move playing the Queens based on what was given. However, if you had detailed HUD info. your decision would have been much better informed.

Kasanova King · Nov 12, 2009

Depends. If you are looking to win - or at least place top 3 - then calling was the right move. If you were looking just to cash - then it wasn't. Pretty simple, really.

Pafkata · Nov 12, 2009

Kasanova King said:
Depends. If you are looking to win - or at least place top 3 - then calling was the right move. If you were looking just to cash - then it wasn't. Pretty simple, really.

+1

If you wanted to win the tourney - you made the right call !!!

If you played just to get into the money - this hand ruined your goal

But it's always right to play to win it all !

swrittenb · Nov 12, 2009

Yeah, it really depends on the sizes. If the all-in raise wasn't too much more than you were already on the hook for, probably best to call. You were definitely ahead, and the other players got lucky. But you can easily get raised by aces or kings, right?

Mortis · Nov 12, 2009

Pafkata said:
+1

If you wanted to win the tourney - you made the right call !!!

If you played just to get into the money - this hand ruined your goal

But it's always right to play to win it all !

^This.

You made the right call, imo, and just happened to get a bad beat.

dufferdevon · Nov 12, 2009

I am not sure how the action went. But if villain pushed all in as 2nd stack from an early position, I snap call this with QQ and even do a fist pump.

There is no way 2nd chip leader is shoving all in with AA or KK. They want someone to call with a hand that strong. My first thougt would be 88-JJ but even that is crazy becaue you are only getting calls from hands that beat you (most of the time).

You made the right decision, just got unlucky. And you should play these to win, not just make the money. The fields are so weak (see KQ shove by 2nd stack as example of weakness) there is no reason not to play for first.

Jodieblonde · Nov 12, 2009

Oh, how I hate pockets J's, Q's, K's and even A's. However, how could you not call when it was so close to the end. You would have still been in the game if you would have folded though so I'm not really sure what is actually RIGHT or WRONG in your case. The sad part is how you were forced to go all in. Better luck on the pocket hands next time you get one.

swrittenb · Nov 12, 2009

dufferdevon said:
There is no way 2nd chip leader is shoving all in with AA or KK. They want someone to call with a hand that strong. My first thougt would be 88-JJ but even that is crazy becaue you are only getting calls from hands that beat you (most of the time).

If the stack sizes to blinds are comparable, it's possible that some of the time this happens. All-in is a huge raise, but (and no offense to the OP) there's a good chance he knew he'd get called. I mean, his all-in GOT called, which like you said is EXACTLY what you want with AA or KK.

All-in with KQ from 2nd chip leader is a bad play, calling with QQ is probably questionable but turns out to have been the absolute right move, and it sucks to get sucked out on with a K.

FTP_TheNuts · Nov 12, 2009

NOOOOOOOOOO, the thread title almost makes me puke EVERYWHERE. NEVER EVER PLAY LIKE A PUSSY AROUND THE BUBBLE, cruising into the cash is dumb, in the long run its always the right thing to do to carry on playing.

Pbland · Nov 12, 2009

I'd like to hear what the blinds were and what your stack size was. If your M was in the 10 range, then I'd call instantly. An M of 12+ is a little trickier.

Dagon7 · Nov 13, 2009

Yep, he had basically a 3 outer unless you count runner runner runner or 4 suits as FT seems to like to do to you late in a tourney

p), but folding and giving up the pot which was probably already large at this stage is exactly what he wanted you to do, and he was sick when he saw the bad news and knew he made a mistake, until the k hit, then of course he's a genius. This is more or less a winner take all tourney, and with the added bonus of the ko aggression and gambling are the two best tools you have, but as it's been said in a large MTT with a large payout field if you can avoid a race where you haven't committed chips and you have enough bb's left then may as well wait for a better spot, of course I wouldnt have and that's why I still suck

ethon · Nov 13, 2009

This is all about position and stack size. If he's pushing all in UTG/UTG+1, you can probably be sure he has at least 1 overcard to your QQ. If he's 2nd in chips and pushing OOP, it's probably best to just lay it down even though you have a great starting hand.

Pretty crazy that he only had KQ (suited or not?) and open pushed. At this stage in the tournament, even though blinds are fairly large, I don't know how it's worth it to attempt to steal with KQ.

TIGERSTUMP · Nov 13, 2009

he was bullyin wiv big stak ,,,uve obv put him on ak aq,,, your call was correct,,,dont beat yourself up,,u win some races u lose some,,this time u lost,if u won that race u rob go on an win the comp..dont beat yourself up about the call u cant muk qq v an all in

Arjonius · Nov 13, 2009

It's a fairly easy call. If he put you all in with a higher pair, it might not be a great play, but it could happen. So be it. If he did it with AK, I'm okay with racing. With anything else, I definitely want to take my solid shot at doubling up.

Folding to get into the money is something I'd definitely consider if I were playing well above my normal levels so that just cashing would mean a major boost to my bankroll. A 90-person $3 tournament wouldn't come close to meeting that condition for me, even though $3 is in the buyin range where I play. But I understand that other people's rolls and values differ.

percy312 · Nov 13, 2009

What about a large freeroll with a few spots getting paid and your still trying to create a BR, is it ok to fold until you make it into the money???
not that its working out for me

DaBigBoss · Nov 13, 2009

that call is risky but is the correct one . I must be on the same roll (bad luck ) this week has been terrible for that exact type of hand around the cash! JUST CALL ME BUBBLEBOY! (at least this week

)I'm even second guessing my play style because of it.....i guess you and i just need to take it and chaulk it up as "you win some you lose some"

sheepy10 · Nov 13, 2009

you made the right call

you got your chips in the best hand

LuckyChippy · Nov 15, 2009

Making the money shouldn't enter your mind. If you beleive you had the best hand (I assume you did) then you call. If you had won you wqould have had a stack for taking the tournament down, that is you goal.

Fold QQ to make money?

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