HELP

nowandthen12 · Jan 3, 2011

So seemingly i would say that I'm not a happy camper when I lose, in fact I tend to be mad at myself for calling in a situation where I can put someone on their hand and still call just to see if im right. I know that im not going to be a good player til I learn to fold when I know that im beat. With that said, is there any advice that someone would offer to help to cope with situations like this. Thanks.

Stu_Ungar · Jan 3, 2011

Dont call.

Poof · Jan 3, 2011

Yes, as Stu said don't call. I am not sure if this will help you or not, but I had the same problem and being a cash game player, it is easier for me not to call but then to watch that person closely. I am assuming you have no reads.
If they turn out to be a maniac then you will make your money back. If they are a tight solid player you will see soon enough probably good fold.
I have no recommendations for tournaments though, I usually call and get railed.

Stu_Ungar · Jan 3, 2011

I am always wary of people who start a post telling us of their amazing hand reading abilities and finish the post telling us that they cant stop calling.

It dosent really make sense.

If you are an accurate hand reader and you play a lot of poker, there comes a point where you physically cant call because you are sure you are beat.

This is due to the very same reason you dont touch a fire. At some point, as a small child, you hadnt correlated the relationship between fire and getting burned so inevitably many children suffer minor burns in the learning process. Eventually your "read" on what fire is and what it does in certain situations becomes so strong that you no longer feel the urge to touch hot ambers to find out if they are hot enough.

Usually the calling is a symptom of being lost in the hand.

Poof · Jan 3, 2011

Stu_Ungar said:
I am always wary of people who start a post telling us of their amazing hand reading abilities and finish the post telling us that they cant stop calling.

I am assuming calling is like crack to some ppl. They know they are beat but have to call and see it...

PurgatoryD · Jan 3, 2011

At some point you have to trust yourself. Once you start second-guessing yourself and doing the opposite of what your brain tells you to do, it's all over.

Also, you may think that you're calling because you're just "curious", but in actuality you may be hyper-sensitive to someone bluffing you out of a pot. If so, you have to get over that because it's going to happen no matter how good you are. And once other players learn that you can't lay down your cards, they'll eat you up! So it's best for your game if you really get to the heart of why you keep doing this.

Good luck to you and don't get "curious" in the middle of a hand!

-Dave

nabmom · Jan 3, 2011

I think this is something that most newer players struggle with. One of the mantras that I (try to) adopt is "they're not bluffing nearly as often as you think." I like what PurgatoryD said, we have to get over that need to prove to ourselves we are beat.

I think this is just a phase we have to get over. Kind of like looking at hole cards after we fold preflop to see if they "would have" hit.

thekazh · Jan 3, 2011

As the "Mad Genius" Mike Caro himself said:

- Money you dont put in the pot buys just as much as money you win.

In other words, a good fold is a winning play.

nowandthen12 · Jan 4, 2011

I would like to thank everyone for the responses that I got for my problem. Today has been, day one of not calling to see if im right. I have layed down hands that i didn't think i could lay down and seemingly im not feeling the need to know if i would have won or not. Thanks a lot.

Stu_Ungar · Jan 4, 2011

nowandthen12 said:
I would like to thank everyone for the responses that I got for my problem. Today has been, day one of not calling to see if im right. I have layed down hands that i didn't think i could lay down and seemingly im not feeling the need to know if i would have won or not. Thanks a lot.

Thats excellent

IamRude · Jan 4, 2011

nowandthen12 said:
I would like to thank everyone for the responses that I got for my problem. Today has been, day one of not calling to see if im right. I have layed down hands that i didn't think i could lay down and seemingly im not feeling the need to know if i would have won or not. Thanks a lot.

Good job on your success today.
2 things I would also recommend for the future:

1. Instead of putting players on an exact hand, put them on ranges. This will give you a better gauge on the percentage of hands that have you beat, and make it easier to lay a hand down and or call.

2. Try to avoid difficult post-flop decisions. This means not investing money into pots with marginal hands. The less money in the pot, the less difficult the decision of calling/folding will be, and the greater ability you have to avert risk.

LarryT503 · Jan 4, 2011

I think you need to ask "why am I calling". Is it an emotional response or is there good reason to call? Calling and getting beat is part of the game, but if you're calling with the belief you are beat then you are no longer playing a logical game and you better learn self-control or quit playing before you go broke.

nightmoves44 · Jan 5, 2011

tune in

nowandthen12 said:
So seemingly i would say that I'm not a happy camper when I lose, in fact I tend to be mad at myself for calling in a situation where I can put someone on their hand and still call just to see if im right. I know that im not going to be a good player til I learn to fold when I know that im beat. With that said, is there any advice that someone would offer to help to cope with situations like this. Thanks.

Perhaps you should start trusting your gut instincts a little more.Learn to fold,and make notes on players known to bluff,and those who dont.Plus learn to fold monster hands,when you know you are beat.Trust in your decisions.

PurgatoryD · Jan 5, 2011

nowandthen12 said:
Today has been, day one of not calling to see if im right. I have layed down hands that i didn't think i could lay down and seemingly im not feeling the need to know if i would have won or not. Thanks a lot.

Really glad to hear! Sometimes it just takes hearing it from other people!

PurgatoryD · Jan 5, 2011

IamRude said:
2. Try to avoid difficult post-flop decisions.

This is great advice! It took me a while to get that one to sink in. A-rag is a good example. Hitting that ace usually just means that your kicker is beat. Now I like to make things easy on myself!

nowandthen12 · Jan 8, 2011

i do thank everyone for their advice, haven't been on lately since im just not in the right state of mind after playing cards the past couple of days. One bad beat after another, people chasing flushes for their tournament lives and some other obscure obsinities that i never can understand, or will understand how people call with some of the hands that they call with.
Also im done with calling peoples hands, just going with hand range, tyvm for everything.

C00T · Jan 8, 2011

The stupiest advice that all books, all pros, all your friends and everyone tells you is: PUT THEM ON A HAND. BS. I'll put them on a hand for you: complete junk, bluff or straight flush nuts. Hows that for putting someone on a hand. I''m right 100 per cent of the time. The second stupiest advice is: It's not the cards but how you play them. BS. It's the cards. To be quite honest, it comes down to those little guys running around in your brain: Mr. Fold, Mr. Call, Mr. Bet, Mr. Raise, Mr.Reraise, and most of all Mr. Allin.

rugby0 · Jan 8, 2011

I had this problem for the longest time. Took my hand off the mouse and forced myself to think for one second longer. This helped.

TheKAAHK · Jan 8, 2011

C00T said:
The stupiest advice that all books, all pros, all your friends and everyone tells you is: PUT THEM ON A HAND. BS. I'll put them on a hand for you: complete junk, bluff or straight flush nuts. Hows that for putting someone on a hand. I''m right 100 per cent of the time.

Right, you don't put them on an exact hand, you estimate a range. Then as the board plays out you can narrow their range accrding to what is on the board, betting patterns, player tendencies and histroy until you can narrow their range to a few possibilities. If you think that they all come down to "complete junk, bluff, straight flush nuts" then you are not paying enough attention to your opponents and therefore will never get any better at playing agianst them.

The second stupiest advice is: It's not the cards but how you play them. BS. It's the cards. To be quite honest, it comes down to those little guys running around in your brain: Mr. Fold, Mr. Call, Mr. Bet, Mr. Raise, Mr.Reraise, and most of all Mr. Allin.

Sorry, this is not true. The cards themselves are relevant to a point, but it is what you do with them that is imorotant. If I peg a player like you who is just playing their cards, I am going to beat the crap out of you nearly every hand you play. I won't even need to have a hand against you, I'll just know if you hit or not and if I think you didn't, that pot is mine. I am going to know when you hit and when you don't and after a short while I am going to be able to do it so good that you are going to tilt and shove with garbage. And there are many thousands of players like me.

Play your cards to a point, but also be open minded enough to spot potential situations where your cards are not even revelant. If you just play your hand you are easily exploitable and your game will rely on catching flops for you to get anywhere.

HELP

nowandthen12

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