joe777 said:
I second this notion.
Making the right decisions even when things go awry is a 'victory'.
Obviously victory is outright winning but perhaps the question could be presented as 'How do you leave a game satisfied?'.
Then that could open up 'recognising tilt and neutralising it' or 'folding the second nuts to the first'.
zingbust said:
DITTO - Victory is cut and dry. It is winning. But losing does not mean that other things cannot be taken from the experience/effort/time spent. I have walked away out of the money but feeling very good and satisfied with how I played. I have also walked away ITM pretty disjointed and dissatisfied with how I played.
Don't want to take away from a great post, but I do recommend you try another tact than "moral victories" - highly competitive people will not buy into that bullshit loser talk (because that's what it is to us). We will buy into the fact that there are other elements that are separate from winning that make us better and more prepared for the next competition.
Achieving goals is achieving goals (having fun, making final table, finishing ITM), but victory in competition is one thing and one thing only: Last Man Standing.
A poker buddy and I used to always have 10% of each other in tournaments we played. Until the time I recently finished 5th (well ITM) and since I wasn't yelling "Yippee" (I wasn't even grumbling, I was just tired and disappointed), I was chastised by him for being unappreciative and unthankful . Fair enough, but it exposed the extreme difference between us - I was playing to win and he was playing to cash (his idea of victory). It was clear our arrangement was not fair to either one of us so I absolved the agreement and wish him well and have partnered with someone else who has more of a victory or nothing mentality.
ON BEHALF OF US UBER-COMPETITIVE TYPES:
We don't have a problem with those who are playing for fun, or to be social, or just to have a hobby. We don't lecture you or try to convince you to change your game, motives or objectives. Please don't feel like you are responsible for ours. 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂
So the ability to take something from each tournament (hand, even) is critical to getting better as a player, let's just not confuse that with winning.
As others have said, nice read.
For me I think Iv'e had a small victory if I can make the money especially online because depite the number of quality posts and articles about poker, there are always those that just like to see and play every hand not matter the bets before hand. So to make the money you have to have patience, a bit of luck and hopefully enjoy the experience .
Obviously once in the money the next object in the game is to win because winning gives the most pleasure.
Vicyory's come in all shapes and sizes and each person has there own definition of winng.
For me I think Iv'e had a small victory if I can make the money especially online because depite the number of quality posts and articles about poker, there are always those that just like to see and play every hand not matter the bets before hand. So to make the money you have to have patience, a bit of luck and hopefully enjoy the experience .
Obviously once in the money the next object in the game is to win because winning gives the most pleasure.
Vicyory's come in all shapes and sizes and each person has there own definition of winng.
victory ok i wont quote the dictionary lol. remember to come in second place in a tourney or sng is the last loser. to achieve a goal or to gain knowledge or just to have fun to me is a sense of victory in my online poker endeavors. i play online for entertainment i play live to supplement my income. to be victorious in online play and to be victorious in live play to me has two different meanings but similarities in both.
my high school football coach said something that has been in my head for my life now. lets see if i can get the meaning across. some people say that winning isnt everything its how you play the game. at that point he yelled bullshit we aren't out here putting in this hard work to be losers. oh that man was good he taught us about the game and we went on to be undefeated and took state that year. oh what a feeling that was now that was a true feeling of victory for the goal we set forth.
my high school football coach said something that has been in my head for my life now. lets see if i can get the meaning across. some people say that winning isnt everything its how you play the game. at that point he yelled bullshit we aren't out here putting in this hard work to be losers. oh that man was good he taught us about the game and we went on to be undefeated and took state that year. oh what a feeling that was now that was a true feeling of victory for the goal we set forth.
You give very good advice, thank you very much, and yes, it is true and I share when you say that you should not analyze what you win just for the money you charge in the tournament, many times you are winning more than in relation to a dollar.