How to Explain Poker to Non-Poker Players

3betfish · Apr 9, 2018

How do you guys explain poker to people who think it's 100% luck and gamble?

I've used the following:

same players always tends to win, does that mean they're lucky for life?
it is still gambling but in regards to short term luck, often times if you make the right decisions you will come out ahead
weaker players will lose while stronger players will win (profit)
if it was really a game of luck, nobody would be able to make a living off of it (yes luck still exists though)

JBGoode · Apr 9, 2018

That's simple, I invite them to sit down and play a game with me. If they decline, I rebuttal with, "why not? Its all just luck right?"

If they say, "I don't gamble."

I reply with, "Ok, here's the deal. we will play .01/.02 NLH (or .05/.10 NLH depending on what it takes to get them to play), with my money. Whatever you win you can keep, Thus you are not gambling, if anything I'm gambling to prove a point."

Normally I don't get anyone to say no. and I haven't lost that bet yet.

Nintendo · Apr 9, 2018

I find it really hard and painful to try to explain stuff to new players. It is just things you hope they grasp over time but some never do.

step055 · Apr 9, 2018

It depends on players))) Sometimes it's a funny process. But sometimes I try to do my best to keep calm. But the best way to explain the rules is to play a game.

3betfish · Apr 9, 2018

Nintendo said:
I find it really hard and painful to try to explain stuff to new players. It is just things you hope they grasp over time but some never do.

This thread isn’t about new players. It’s about non-poker players.

step055 said:
It depends on players))) Sometimes it's a funny process. But sometimes I try to do my best to keep calm. But the best way to explain the rules is to play a game.

This thread is not about new players. It is about non-poker players.

JBGoode said:
That's simple, I invite them to sit down and play a game with me. If they decline, I rebuttal with, "why not? Its all just luck right?"

If they say, "I don't gamble."

I reply with, "Ok, here's the deal. we will play .01/.02 NLH (or .05/.10 NLH depending on what it takes to get them to play), with my money. Whatever you win you can keep, Thus you are not gambling, if anything I'm gambling to prove a point."

Normally I don't get anyone to say no. and I haven't lost that bet yet.

I really like this. Will have to try it soon!

proud2Bwhack · Apr 10, 2018

I always say it is like playing chess for money!

3betfish · Apr 10, 2018

proud2Bwhack said:
I always say it is like playing chess for money!

Gonnna have to use this one Sometime. Someone in my group of friends actually
Plays chess lol

neptun1914 · Apr 10, 2018

I try to explain that while there is luck involved there is enough mathematics and statistics involved to allow better playing people to ahead in a long run. That's why it can not be considered as pure gambling like roulette for example. The single fact that there are people who are ahead of the other proves that there is skill involved and it is not pure luck. If someone do not believe ask him to find person who is consistently winning on roulette.

NHequalsFU · Apr 10, 2018

Tell them poker is an investment.

That you take a certain amount of money(bankroll) and invest small percentages(buy-ins) of it for a period of time. Sometimes you will lose your small investments but over time your total investment will increase.

Tell them you track your investments with graphs and statistics and use math to determine how to get the best return on your investment.

3betfish · Apr 10, 2018

NHequalsFU said:
Tell them poker is an investment.

That you take a certain amount of money(bankroll) and invest small percentages(buy-ins) of it for a period of time. Sometimes you will lose your small investments but over time your total investment will increase.

Tell them you track your investments with graphs and statistics and use math to determine how to get the best return on your investment.

Most people laugh when you use the investing analogy because of the potential losses and how luck can be involved. They have a hard time believing poker can be calculated, (so I often talk about the zero sum game principle)

Risto234 · Apr 10, 2018

NHequalsFU said:
Tell them poker is an investment.

That you take a certain amount of money(bankroll) and invest small percentages(buy-ins) of it for a period of time. Sometimes you will lose your small investments but over time your total investment will increase.

Tell them you track your investments with graphs and statistics and use math to determine how to get the best return on your investment.

Poker is an investment as much as is sports betting ...
So basically that kind of review could work if needed to describe both of them.

Vfranks · Apr 10, 2018

I always say that in the short term there is luck involved, but over the long run it evens out if you are a good player. Also I point out that if it is all luck and gamble, then why do the same players tend to always get to the final table and/or win tournaments consistently.

mtl mile end · Apr 10, 2018

It's usually not worth the trouble. Most people tend to think that they already know everything. I was recently talking to the girlfriend of a friend who tries (but fails) to play poker. The conversation revolved around keeping the brain active to ward off dementia that is ubiquitous in my family. She asked me "what do you do to keep your brain active?". I responded "I play poker online every day". She just rolled her eyes and said "have you tried crosswords?".

There is little reason to try to explain a game to someone who is not interested in playing it just for the sake of their understanding. If you have a reason to try to do this, I would suggest comparing/contrasting poker to games of pure chance like lotteries or roulette, as well as to games of strategy like blackjack, and referencing the odds differences in said games. NLHE has the same odds-influenced factors along with four streets of betting that can influence the behaviour of your opponents and the outcome of the hand.

NHequalsFU · Apr 10, 2018

mtl mile end said:
It's usually not worth the trouble. Most people tend to think that they already know everything. I was recently talking to the girlfriend of a friend who tries (but fails) to play poker. The conversation revolved around keeping the brain active to ward off dementia that is ubiquitous in my family. She asked me "what do you do to keep your brain active?". I responded "I play poker online every day". She just rolled her eyes and said "have you tried crosswords?".

There is little reason to try to explain a game to someone who is not interested in playing it just for the sake of their understanding. If you have a reason to try to do this, I would suggest comparing/contrasting poker to games of pure chance like lotteries or roulette, as well as to games of strategy like blackjack, and referencing the odds differences in said games. NLHE has the same odds-influenced factors along with four streets of betting that can influence the behaviour of your opponents and the outcome of the hand.

This is pretty accurate. Usually a lost cause explaining stuff to most people.

mrwhippy · Apr 10, 2018

3betfish said:
How do you guys explain poker to people who think it's 100% luck and gamble?

I've used the following:

same players always tends to win, does that mean they're lucky for life?

it is still gambling but in regards to short term luck, often times if you make the right decisions you will come out ahead

weaker players will lose while stronger players will win (profit)

if it was really a game of luck, nobody would be able to make a living off of it (yes luck still exists though)

In one of the many books I read I think it might be one by ed Miller he explains it quite well.

You can't deliberately loose a game of chance you can deliberately loose a game if skill.

And you can deliberately loose a hand/game of poker

lexaplis · Apr 10, 2018

many of my friends refused to play poker, but then were in rapture. Rules all quickly understand, but still that would learn to play well you need practice

barbin88 · Apr 10, 2018

It's not worthy discussing with people that thinks that poker is gambling. Don't waste your time.

ratmantoo · Apr 10, 2018

Its like rummy but with chips....bring your wallet!

Actually with Maths; simple odds and probability.Even with a 99% chance to win, you still have that one percent where you will loose, but if you play it 10 times you will be ahead.

TrillUziVert · Apr 11, 2018

A lot of non-poker players just simply think gambling is dumb in general. Its either that, or they just don't take the time to learn it. 😅

kraemer · Apr 11, 2018

If someone tells You "I don't gamble!" then just ask him
to hand over his car keys...

With thousands of people dying each year in traffic accidents
such a person will not have good use for a machine that puts their life at stake...

3betfish · Apr 11, 2018

kraemer said:
If someone tells You "I don't gamble!" then just ask him
to hand over his car keys...

With thousands of people dying each year in traffic accidents
such a person will not have good use for a machine that puts their life at stake...

I doubt anyone would like to compare their driving ability to poker...... lol.....................

Nathan Williams · Apr 12, 2018

My approach to people who think poker is 100% luck has always been the same...I just agree with them!

It's never worth the time. Also, I think I profit more longterm when people continue to think I am just lucky.

Maurits92 · Apr 12, 2018

BlackRain79 said:
My approach to people who think poker is 100% luck has always been the same...I just agree with them!

It's never worth the time. Also, I think I profit more longterm when people continue to think I am just lucky.

I don't fully agree with you, as I believe there is some value in trying to explain your hobby/job to people you meet.

Just had a look on your site, and read some articles. Good stuff! Personally just starting out with 2NL zoom on PokerStars and I'll definitely be considering a HUD after reading your article on them! :top:

Nathan Williams · Apr 12, 2018

Maurits92 said:
I don't fully agree with you, as I believe there is some value in trying to explain your hobby/job to people you meet.

Just had a look on your site, and read some articles. Good stuff! Personally just starting out with 2NL zoom on PokerStars and I'll definitely be considering a HUD after reading your article on them! :top:

Thanks glad I could help

BobbyMorton · Apr 12, 2018

Trying to explain to someone who thinks its all luck would be harder than cashing in a tournament.

How to Explain Poker to Non-Poker Players

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