How long to play @ 10$ NL before moving up?

c9h13no3 · Jun 26, 2008

So I started playing 10$ NL about 2 weeks ago, and apparently I run well, because I'm already rolled for 25$ NL. I almost have to be on a heater, because I haven't had a losing session yet.

How big of a jump is it to go from 10$ NL to 25$ NL? How long should I spend playing 10$ NL before I start to move up?

And I should probably get some sort of tracker if I'm thinking about moving up...

KyleJRM · Jun 26, 2008

c9h13no3 said:
So I started playing 10$ NL about 2 weeks ago, and apparently I run well, because I'm already rolled for 25$ NL. I almost have to be on a heater, because I haven't had a losing session yet.

How big of a jump is it to go from 10$ NL to 25$ NL? How long should I spend playing 10$ NL before I start to move up?

And I should probably get some sort of tracker if I'm thinking about moving up...

10k hands of winning poker, minimum.

c9h13no3 · Jun 26, 2008

KyleJRM said:
10k hands of winning poker, minimum.

Lets say I can't count hands

. That's roughly like 80 hands an hour, so... 125 hours? I've got 86 "table hours" (16 actual hours) playing 10$ NL full ring, plus 72 "table hours" (19 actual hours) playing short handed. So I suppose I prolly have 10K hands...

Idk, I'm totally not ready yet. It'll prolly be good to keep playing until I hit a downswing playing 10$ NL, as those generally put a lot of things in perspective for me

I'm just trying to figure out what people use as an indicator that they're ready to move up in stakes.

KyleJRM · Jun 26, 2008

c9h13no3 said:
Lets say I can't count hands . That's roughly like 80 hands an hour, so... 125 hours? I've got 86 "table hours" (16 actual hours) playing 10$ NL full ring, plus 72 "table hours" (19 actual hours) playing short handed. So I suppose I prolly have 10K hands...

Idk, I'm totally not ready yet. It'll prolly be good to keep playing until I hit a downswing playing 10$ NL, as those generally put a lot of things in perspective for me

I guess the best answer, then, is to wait until you are comfortable with the idea of playing NL25.

4Aces · Jun 26, 2008

I think it should be ok to move up when you are:

A) Rolled for the next level,

B) You are beating your current level for a decent winrate,

C) You have a big enough sample size. (I would say at least 25K hands)

Also, a tracker is a must. Go and get poker tracker, it is well worth the money.

ChuckTs · Jun 26, 2008

How many hands have you played at 10nl?

I agree with Kyle - 10k should be an absolute minimum. I never played 10nl so I can't say what the jump is from 10-25, but it's not going to be huge. 25nl is pretty damn fishy.

But yeah, get a tracker and plug in more hands.

chainfire98 · Jun 26, 2008

Play $25 NL when BRM dictates it is fine...I.e 30-50 x the buy-in

joos · Jun 26, 2008

played 10NL for 25k beating it for 8BB/100 and now i think i have hit a bad patch of variance as soon as i moved up. My 25NL graph looks like a sin(x) graph and only beating it for 1.25BB/100 over 4k hands.

On the other hand I have improved my non showdown winnings to pretty much even in 25NL. It also seems that its been 1k hands since ive floped a set or the board didnt come AKx when im holding QQ

GunslingerZ · Jun 26, 2008

In addition to what everyone else has said, make sure you have the mentality to ship in 100BBs if the situation warrants it without thinking, "OMG this is 2.5 buy-ins at my old level!" You need to be able to play your same game that has made you a winning player at the lower level, otherwise you'll just be scared when you move up.

jolubman · Jun 26, 2008

I have no idea what to tell you. However, I'm suprised no one is telling you how much money you should have. How big of a stack you need to play at that level.

c9h13no3 · Jun 26, 2008

GunslingerZ said:
In addition to what everyone else has said, make sure you have the mentality to ship in 100BBs if the situation warrants it without thinking, "OMG this is 2.5 buy-ins at my old level!" You need to be able to play your same game that has made you a winning player at the lower level, otherwise you'll just be scared when you move up.

This is not my problem

If anything, I need to learn to bluff less when I move up.

SeanyJ · Jun 26, 2008

Keep playing 10NL for now, win whatever it costs to buy PokerTracker and then put all of your hands into PokerTracker. Then you'll actually know how well you are doing and it will help you fix a bunch of the leaks in your game!

dsvw56 · Jun 26, 2008

SeanyJ said:
Keep playing 10NL for now, win whatever it costs to buy Hold'em Manager and then put all of your hands into Hold'em Manager. Then you'll actually know how well you are doing and it will help you fix a bunch of the leaks in your game!

FYP

widowmaker89 · Jun 27, 2008

While it seems you have enough hands anyway, I am not really following why 10K hands is a minimum. Its a bit of a oxy morom to say you never did 10nl and then say they need 10k hands to play a level other people start at? Not trying to start a fight here but just wondering why at these limits a sufficient winrate is really needed.

If you are properly rolled and are mentally ready then go for it. You can also mix it up at first, play a session at 25nl then a couple and 10nl to get the hang of it. PT or holdem manager are also well worth the money, and whiile you dont "need" it, it will make its money back pretty quickly. Read up on some PT threads or study it yourself to be able to use it fully. ChuckT has some good posts on it(imagine that).

ChuckTs · Jun 27, 2008

widowmaker89 said:
While it seems you have enough hands anyway, I am not really following why 10K hands is a minimum. Its a bit of a oxy morom to say you never did 10nl and then say they need 10k hands to play a level other people start at? Not trying to start a fight here but just wondering why at these limits a sufficient winrate is really needed.

Well with all due respect to c9, he may not (yet) be good enough to beat 10nl. If he's a losing 10nl player and is just experiencing an upswing, he'll get ruined at 25nl (barring another upswing that might put him at 50nl where he'll be even less prepared).

Taking shots is fine, but all I'm saying is that you shouldn't jump head-first into the next stakes up just because you're on an upswing and are suddenly rolled for it.

KyleJRM · Jun 27, 2008

widowmaker89 said:
While it seems you have enough hands anyway, I am not really following why 10K hands is a minimum. Its a bit of a oxy morom to say you never did 10nl and then say they need 10k hands to play a level other people start at? Not trying to start a fight here but just wondering why at these limits a sufficient winrate is really needed.

You need 10K hands because that's the absolute *minimum* amount of hands for all the variance to begin to even out and know that you are a winning player. It's very easy for a slightly losing player to have a 5k hand upswing that puts them rolled for the next level, but that doesn't prove they are a winning player.

Everyone thinks they are a winning poker player, because it's so easy to mentally fool ourselves. Our minds are wired with all kinds of memory biases that befuddle us. But 10K hands is the absolute minimum before you can even think about being honestly sure you are one.

Richyl2008 · Jun 27, 2008

Download the PT3 demo for free, and import all your hand histories into it.
You can mess around with the filters and different tabs, to find out if there are things that are or are not working for you. You dont need to buy PT to do this it is a free trial and as far as I know you there is no limit on the number of hands you can import.

c9h13no3 · Jun 27, 2008

ChuckTs said:
Well with all due respect to c9, he may not (yet) be good enough to beat 10nl.

That, and there are also things to be learned at every limit. I'm a pretty conservative guy when it comes to my bankroll & my win rate. I don't want to move up until I'm absolutely certain that I can crush the game at that level, and that I've learned everything there is to learn @ 10$ NL, while its cheap.

vanquish · Jun 27, 2008

get PT first definitely

juddof poker · Jun 28, 2008

don't worry bout bankrolls so much at these stakes, just make the move focus on improving game more then money at the moment,25nl pretty bad couldnt be any sort of jump up but good luck 2x buy in good enough roll

unstoppable4 · Jun 28, 2008

When you get about 250 dollars you should move up imo.

c9h13no3 · Jun 28, 2008

unstoppable4 said:
When you get about 250 dollars you should move up imo.

Well I have more than double that, so I'm way past due

Is bankroll management like not cool or something?

bw07507 · Jun 28, 2008

but good luck 2x buy in good enough roll

LOL

Whenever u feel comfortable c9 I think you should move up. Judging from your posts/hand analysis stuff I think you are clearly a winning player and 25NL is not that different from 10NL. You get maybe 3 absolute donks per table instead of 4 or 5.

chispa73 · Jun 28, 2008

I'm not even close to having enough money to play $25 NL nor do I have 10K hands so I can't give you an opinion on that. But I can tell you one thing I would do....I would go and observe the tables without playing and watch everyone else. See what kind of hands get shown down, what betting patterns they have, and try to find someone who is doing well at that level and follow them around. See what they're doing and see if you're game is about the same or maybe even better.

c9h13no3 · Jun 28, 2008

Well I picked up hold'em manager, but for some reason the HUD looks like crap when I use miniview for the tables. Any way to get it so it just pops up when I click on their names?

How long to play @ 10$ NL before moving up?

c9h13no3

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KyleJRM

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KyleJRM

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4Aces

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