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Message: [QUOTE="LukeSilver, post: 2295558, member: 59099"] ive regularly made good money playing dons im not 100% sure about ICM in this spot but from a lot of experience in them I am well aware it is a clear fold. I highly doubt im beat in that spot but as someone else said KK is only 70% against ace rag. my odds of placing are well above 95% in this spot and taking an 80-20 usually isn't a good idea either. I might call with AA but theres a good argument for laying even that down. i haven't come across them much before so would be hard pressed to suggest large samples. the spot is rare big stack v big stack with two small stacks and having 2nd best hand possible happens probably one in 1000 sngs or less. [/QUOTE]