Is it OK to rerais a tight player allin with KK after he raises to 10x bb?

bustme · Dec 23, 2007

KyleJRM · Dec 23, 2007

Have you seen him raise 10xbb with AA before? Have you seen him raise 10xbb with anything other than AA before?

vanquish · Dec 23, 2007

If you mean he opens preflop to 10x BB then yes in 99.999% of situations.

rob5775 · Dec 23, 2007

10x raise pf = middle pair.

IMO

KyleJRM · Dec 23, 2007

vanquish said:
If you mean he opens preflop to 10x BB then yes in 99.999% of situations.

Agreed. The only way I wouldn't is if I'd played a lot of hands with a guy and seen that he only did it with AA. And only if I suspected they didn't know I know they did it.

There was a player on FT NL$10 awhile back who would supermultitable all day long and fold every hand unless they had AA or KK, then raise all-in. They didn't get called often, but every time they did they showed down one of those two hands. It was surprisingly profitable (even got me a few times when I had AK suited and hadn't learned my lesson yet).

Against someone like that, whom I had seen many times at the table and had a clear MO they would never vary from, I would have folded KK because that meant they either had the other two kings or AA, and the AA was much more likely.

That is the *only* time I would have ever folded it, and even then I would have thought hard and may not have had the discipline. Other than a picture-perfect read of AA, which you will have .0000000001% of the time, you don't go away with KK.

vanquish · Dec 23, 2007

KyleJRM said:
Agreed. The only way I wouldn't is if I'd played a lot of hands with a guy and seen that he only did it with AA. And only if I suspected they didn't know I know they did it.

There was a player on FT NL$10 awhile back who would supermultitable all day long and fold every hand unless they had AA or KK, then raise all-in. They didn't get called often, but every time they did they showed down one of those two hands. It was surprisingly profitable (even got me a few times when I had AK suited and hadn't learned my lesson yet).

Against someone like that, whom I had seen many times at the table and had a clear MO they would never vary from, I would have folded KK because that meant they either had the other two kings or AA, and the AA was much more likely.

That is the *only* time I would have ever folded it, and even then I would have thought hard and may not have had the discipline. Other than a picture-perfect read of AA, which you will have .0000000001% of the time, you don't go away with KK.

FWIW, I've folded KK preflop twice, but both times were in tournaments. I stand by both decisions, but I am not sure it's fully relevant for me to elaborate on that here/now.

pantin007 · Dec 23, 2007

10xbb is donky play
u go alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllin
he folds u take down the pot

Dorkus Malorkus · Dec 23, 2007

pantin007 said:
10xbb is donky play
u go alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllin
he calls with aces, prompting this thread to be made

fyp but yeah, in most situations it's fine, although posting the hand history will allow us to comment more deeply and relevantly.

bustme · Dec 23, 2007

Thanks for the answers...I forgot to say that I was talking about cash game full ring table...

Munchrs · Dec 23, 2007

vanquish said:
FWIW, I've folded KK preflop twice, but both times were in tournaments. I stand by both decisions, but I am not sure it's fully relevant for me to elaborate on that here/now.

I folded KK twice in the same tourney against the same player, both times he showed the Aces!!!

SeanyJ · Dec 23, 2007

Full ring cash game table you should always be re raising with pocket kings pre flop.

zachvac · Dec 23, 2007

Tournaments are obviously different but in a cash game you should never lay down aces unless you have a really really really good read. Most players (not good ones, just most in general) would make that move with anything from TT to AA and possibly AK. I treat AA and KK like the best hand in poker every time (preflop obviously). I can get away from QQ preflop but until I play in a game with people who wouldn't push with jacks every time, I'm not folding KK preflop ever, let alone just a 10x BB raise preflop.

vanquish · Dec 24, 2007

zachvac said:
in a cash game you should never lay down aces unless you have a really really really good read.

You mean kings I hope...

zachvac · Dec 24, 2007

vanquish said:
You mean kings I hope...

oh lol yeah, never fold aces preflop in a cash game. Definitely a -ev play

Egon Towst · Dec 24, 2007

Yes, reraise.

Unless previous play tells you he is ubertight, his range must be wider (maybe much wider) than just AA. You are favourite against anything else.

4Aces · Dec 24, 2007

I cant even fold Queens pf.

belladonna05 · Dec 24, 2007

4aces07 said:
I cant even fold Queens pf.

I can jacks though...sometimes even without a raise.

Vrilissia · Dec 24, 2007

I actually was faced with this same decision yesterday in a Micro Tourny on Stars .... but as I had been at the same table with this particular player for about 80 hands or so (we were moved 1 time I think) I just knew he had AA, I'd actually seen it before so relied on my read and folded, and yes he did have AA and won the pot with top pair.

Similar with a push near to the bubble ... folded QQ and sure enough (another) villain made a FH with his AA.

What amazes me is that now I can make some pretty good reads and I still play like c.rap

allndave · Dec 24, 2007

full ring game nothin invested i think you are suppose to fold (not saying that i could) but all you have is a pair why add a bad beat story to go with it. i think there was a question like that in that poker IQ test

switch0723 · Dec 24, 2007

zachvac said:
I treat AA like the best hand in poker every time (preflop obviously).

That is an outrageous way to treat AA

.

You need to feinately push your kk here, if he was that tight, he would want to get value from his aces so wouldnt raise so much, definately re raise and look to be 80% fav against mid pp

Is it OK to rerais a tight player allin with KK after he raises to 10x bb?

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