I’ve noticed that the average player:

nairolph87 said:

Does it really surprise you that the average player in freerolls does not like to laydown top pair?

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No. Or an Ace overcard or an under-pair.

MattRyder said:

No. Or an Ace overcard or an under-pair.

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Yeah basically everything that has showdown value. Its because people dont like to get bluffed and dont like to fold in general. When you play low limits or freerolls this gets even worse. There are exceptions obv.

nairolph87 said:

Yeah basically everything that has showdown value. Its because people dont like to get bluffed and dont like to fold in general. When you play low limits or freerolls this gets even worse. There are exceptions obv.

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Good point! Not sure where the fear of being bluffed comes from - TV perhaps? In my experience most people bet their cards for value most of the time.

MattRyder said:

Won’t bet much with top pair but will call just about any amount.

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What have you noticed?

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Hi.
This is not always the case. In my opinion, there are simply no typical scenarios in poker. It's an unpredictable game, primarily because the players are unpredictable.

How do you know that the player who, I quote you: “He will not bet too much with the top pair, but he will pay almost any amount. “.. is he a regular player?! Preflop with a top pair, it all comes down to what kind of game you are: an important tournament or a freeroll, the tournament is at the beginning, on the bubble, the final table?, the position at the table, what opponents do you have? many important aspects!!! It is very easy to judge someone at first glance, but to know that appearances are often misleading

Lena M said:

Hi.
This is not always the case. In my opinion, there are simply no typical scenarios in poker. It's an unpredictable game, primarily because the players are unpredictable.

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Not really. The plays are very predictable. The outcome follows the odds over the long term. Most players are totally predictable.

in tornys theres highest stack, average , lowest, im mosty in avg stack

Gallarado777 said:

I noticed that the average player comes to the river and on the river is afraid of a big bet and folds a strong hand

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A strong hand but is it the winning hand?

SopianaeExtra said:

The average player will never learn that Cardschat exists.

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LOL

Good point here. But I'm still an average player.

It's not only about discovering CardsChat but also putting it into good use and have the will to get better.

Many are commenting about "average player" but isn't this observation actually GOOD POKER to some extent?

Top Pair is a obviously a good hand that should value bet in a lot of cases, but what I mean by being "good poker" is that in theory one should call a solid frequency because when people bet, they have pot odds/implied odds as well as fold equity (they win the pot right away if everyone else folds regardless of their cards). It then becomes really obvious that folding too often (not calling down enough) could become exploitable as opponents can profitably bet against you with wider and wider ranges as you continuously fold too frequently.

Perhaps I'm giving the "average" player more credit by giving them the benefit of the doubt, but it is clear to see how we don't earn chips by folding...the tough part is knowing when to fold and when to call down etc.

Oh one more thing I forgot to mention too: this is not the first time this observation has been made. Daniel Negreanu's book, Power Holdem notes this concept and it is core to that playstyle. The book playstyle was largely targeting players over-valuing hands like Top Pair when the "small ball" player would hit hands like straights and flushes; this exploited the fact that many had trouble folding "good" hands like Top Pair when they should have known they were beat.

What makes this "small ball" idea so effective was also that if the "average player" began over-folding (like folding Top Pair too often), then the "small ball" playstyle could print money against them because of their wider ranges in blind steal attacks etc. Even playing hands like suited connectors (like 87s or T9s) or one-gappers (like 86s or 97o) were discussed in the book.

GTO (or pretty close to it) is of course necessary at the highest levels with elite players, but in the games with many mistakes, then playstyles based around observations like this can be very profitable.