K Q off suit under the gun..

UTG raises straight off with 1200 from his 5000 stack

I had KK and had about 2800 chips left. Blinds are 100/200

I pushed all in. He called.

He sucked out on the river hitting a flush

What confused me was everyone saying "good call"

I have called an all in raise with KQ and people say its a donkey call.

Would you ? Should you call an all in raise with KQ off suit...

I have noticed that people will say good call or nice hand whenever someone wins with a big hand whether or not if was statistically reasonable or not. Its just saying congratulations on winning when behind. After all, whatever you end up with when shoving preflop is just luck, even if you get your money in with the best hand.

As for calling an all in with KQ, I guess it depends on the circumstances. It has a better chance against Ax than another Ax where you could be dominated and only have one live card.

Just maybe he had a read on you which caused him to make the stupid play.


---

CAPT. ZIGZAG said:

Just maybe he had a read on you which caused him to make the stupid play.


---

Click to expand...

If he had a read on me then surely he wouldnt be calling at all...

fcumred said:

If he had a read on me then surely he wouldnt be calling at all...

Click to expand...

Not that read.


---

Well if pushed and called plenty of all-ins with KQ,doesnt mean i have to like it.

It depends on the situation too. You say the opponent was UTG but where were you? If on the button, or hijack I might would think you were trying to steal a pot from me. If in the BB I might think you were trying to defend your blind. It's tough to say though, I mean there are factors involving both of your play up to that point. Also, was it an MTT or an SNG and how close was everyone to getting paid?

N.D. said:

It depends on the situation too. You say the opponent was UTG but where were you? If on the button, or hijack I might would think you were trying to steal a pot from me. If in the BB I might think you were trying to defend your blind. It's tough to say though, I mean there are factors involving both of your play up to that point. Also, was it an MTT or an SNG and how close was everyone to getting paid?

Click to expand...

I was cut off 1

It was an MTT and there was still a way to go before the money but we were both playing tight and the blinds were just starting to eat way so being fair to both of us a move had to come at some stage.

My point is though, some people call with KQ and everyone berates them for being stupid, and yet some call and its seen as good play..

When is going all in with KQ off suit pre flop good play, and when is it playing like a donk ? ( apart from the glaringly obvious answer of when it wins its good play, when it loses its donk play )

Well he is getting 2:1 on the call and has put a huge % of his stack in already, so the call really isn't that bad (after the donk sized raise)...

Well I've been berated for playing JJ to a raise three handed in a cash game. I mean it was a solid hand pre-flop and I flopped a set and got my boat, betting and raising all the way. I won but the other player had overcards to my jacks and had a hissy fit...

I'm thinking some people tend towards sour grapes. When that happens then they'll tell you you're a donk for raising or calling with a good to great hand. Other people are just more decent. It's not like he was calling with rags. He couldn't have known what you had, and KQ is definitely a decent hand.

Then again maybe they were stroking his ego. There are a lot of possibilities. Personally I don't think it's especially donkish, especially when you haven't many chips and the blinds are eating away at you. Can't wait for Aces in that position and really, even AA can lose, so neither of you were donks.

I'd say the situation was dictating that you had to get chips in with any decent to great hand.

Villain actually has pot odds to call against AK/AQ/QQ (over 5:2 with blinds) and is obv. flipping Against TT/JJ. Like AG said, after putting so much in on the raise...only 2 hands worth folding to, you had one of them.

aliengenius said:

Well he is getting 2:1 on the call and has put a huge % of his stack in already, so the call really isn't that bad (after the donk sized raise)...

Click to expand...

Well the size of the raise wouldn't be so bad if there were multiple limpers, but I wouldn't be raising at all into a multi-way pot with a hand like KQs, depending on how the table was playing.

yeh N.D pretty much covered it, there are way too many factors to consider on the situation to generalise where or not to, and like someone else said above, he might have put u on tilting when there was value... i personally wouldnt raise with KQ under the gun, but then maybe he just wanted to steal the blinds for his next round of blinds, who knows... unlucky bad beat tho... im guessing a 4card flush? the worst kind of badbeat...

Starting hand #2 vs starting hand #20, you can't ask for much better, only problem with poker is sometomes it ain't over til the last card falls!

Chehade said:

im guessing a 4card flush? the worst kind of badbeat...

Click to expand...

Sorry thats made me chuckle.

KQ off suit ? How many cards would he need tp make a flush with if it wasnt four ?