Live game cheating problem. Advice needed.

tenbob · Dec 12, 2009

I dont know how he boxs them at the end of the night, but i've seen them steel 1,000 chip cases around, so its obv he uses them. I know from experience that losing a few chips per night would be pretty usual.

Grossberger · Dec 12, 2009

heres a link that has a case that holds 2000 chips and it has the slots for X amount of chips in each so he could easily tell if any were missing and if so what values if organized right.
http://www.pokernstuff.com/2000pcaluminumpokerchiptrolleycarriercase.aspx

IcyBlueAce · Dec 12, 2009

Also, once enough money gets saved up, you should buy as many different chip sets as possible and use a different set everytime.. Easier than peeling off and using different stickers each time >_<..

You could also give out chips + a sheet of stickers equal to the amount of chips they have to each player and make your them do it.

Stu_Ungar · Dec 12, 2009

A simple and cost effective solution would be to enforce a dress code that prevents cheating.

bazerk · Dec 13, 2009

:adore: Stu Ungar ^^LOL...& cost effective too!

OzExorcist · Dec 13, 2009

*walks in late*

It's pretty much been said above, if the chips have already gone missing then there's no easy solution to this - except that over time if the staff are more vigilant then the problem will fix itself because the players have to put the missing chips back on the table to get the benefit from taking them, and once they're back on the table the venue should be able to stop them leaving again.

PurgatoryD · Dec 13, 2009

OzExorcist said:
the players have to put the missing chips back on the table to get the benefit from taking them, and once they're back on the table the venue should be able to stop them leaving again.

Exactly! Use different chips for the SNG, and then the tourney chips will show back up over time until he gets them all back.

-Dave

Oskool · Dec 13, 2009

I've messed up like this, not cheated

I was playing, one of my first times live. At a local ELKS club and there was a break when we got to the final table. My dumb ass grabs my chips and puts them in my pocket.

Didn't think about it at the time, actually just now realiezed why that is such a big deal.

They were cool though, I was short stacked so they didn't have much to worry about.

CardDeath101 · Dec 13, 2009

well the term is going south taking chips off the table but cheating in poker. Its pathetic gets everywhere these days.

riffpoker · Dec 13, 2009

Here's the gig.....you play there because you can. The rules are what they are even if they get broken. It's not a casino bro. Stay and play or leave and weave.

tenbob · Dec 13, 2009

OK I rekon I've found another possible avenue as to where the chips are coming from. The staff at the venue are having weekly last longer bets on some of the players (including me), for bets lots of weeks several times higher than the tourney buyin. The staff also have access to the room where the chips are stored.

Having said that, I've been backed most weeks by the general manager and have never been given chips.

sharkyo01 · Dec 13, 2009

You spoken to the Card Room or Casino about this?

Pothole · Dec 13, 2009

Have the 1k chips kept separate from the rest and stored in the GM's office. Count them before & after every game and when a table gets busted the players stack is counted and witnessed and he has to produce an 'official' slip to the new table he goes to. Can't understand though why you would need large denomination chips at sng's, just don't use them there. Having said all that, the staff are the prime suspects.

rugby0 · Dec 17, 2009

He does not have to buy new chips . He could rent chips for a few weeks . the problem will fix itself overtime.

PayMeh · Dec 17, 2009

Just mark every chip with a color coded sticker for each day of a tourney. That way you'll be able to tell at a glance if a counterfeit chip has been introduced. As long as it's not a constant game a small number of colors would be needed... That's all I got... lolol I'm looking forward to all the abuse I'm going to get for posting this.. XD

Crummy · Dec 17, 2009

Since the "big" tournament (the one your explaining about) is the one that has the chips missing, I would recommend replacing those chips, then making those chips the SnG chips. This would prevent future use of the Tournament chips from being brought back into the tables when they shouldn't be.

If that isn't cost effective then I would go the other route..... unfortunately with that route you still have tournament chips that are unaccounted for.

dg1267 · Dec 17, 2009

Stickers won't work. If I have stolen a couple of 1k chips and want to introduce them to the table, I'll just take a sticker off of one of my lower chips and stick it on the 1k chip.

I'd go with the security vid signs and some fake security cameras. The fake ones are cheap so you could buy quite a few of them.

IcyBlueAce · Dec 17, 2009

dg1267 said:
Stickers won't work. If I have stolen a couple of 1k chips and want to introduce them to the table, I'll just take a sticker off of one of my lower chips and stick it on the 1k chip.

I'd go with the security vid signs and some fake security cameras. The fake ones are cheap so you could buy quite a few of them.

Stickers are cheaper, and you would obviously use different ones for different chip amounts.

Stu_Ungar · Dec 17, 2009

IcyBlueAce said:
Stickers are cheaper, and you would obviously use different ones for different chip amounts.

1. Who is actually going to sit down and stick 3000 little stickers onto chips?

2. How do you get the stickers off at the end? Its fine to keep adding them over the top for a time or two, but eventually someone is going to have to sit down and remove them.

3. Realistically how counterfeit proof are little stickers?

WVHillbilly · Dec 17, 2009

We're talking about at least 10K chips here. Stickers are in no way practical and they make the chip hard/impossible to stack.

Roger1960 · Dec 17, 2009

It is a shame that there is always someone trying to win by cheating instead of improving their game. You are going to just have to band together with the other honest players and keep a watch for the cheaters. Easier said than done I know.

I was bartending at a club and the shared tips kept looking short, we finally caught the girl stealing with a video camera. She had pockets in her shorts that were right next to her apron pockets. Very hard to see what she was doing. Also like this situation, it didn't happen all night long. Just once or twice with big chips, or in my case with a couple of big bills, made all the difference.

Stu_Ungar · Dec 17, 2009

Roger1960 said:
It is a shame that there is always someone trying to win by cheating instead of improving their game. You are going to just have to band together with the other honest players and keep a watch for the cheaters. Easier said than done I know.

I was bartending at a club and the shared tips kept looking short, we finally caught the girl stealing with a video camera. She had pockets in her shorts that were right next to her apron pockets. Very hard to see what she was doing. Also like this situation, it didn't happen all night long. Just once or twice with big chips, or in my case with a couple of big bills, made all the difference.

But in your example, you simply mounted the camera over the tip jar and waited to see what happened.

In this case there is a large room full of players and tables, its doubtful they have the budget to film everyone.

Poker Orifice · Dec 17, 2009

Stu_Ungar said:
1. Who is actually going to sit down and stick 3000 little stickers onto chips?

2. How do you get the stickers off at the end? Its fine to keep adding them over the top for a time or two, but eventually someone is going to have to sit down and remove them.

3. Realistically how counterfeit proof are little stickers?

agreed

Sticker problems in future, "Umm, excuse me but there's a bunch of stickers here that have fallen off, could I please get some new ones"
(pictures seeing small stickers all over the floor, stuck on soles of shoes, etc.).
It's unfortunate that there's some cheaters in the tournament and no easy/cheap solution. If this is a recent occurrence and now that the players all know it has happened (do they all know?), perhaps they'll all be more vigilant to look for cheaters in future games & perhaps it'll deter the cheaters from repeat performances. Maybe a caught cheater should be tied to a chair and beaten into submission 'soprano-style'? Might be cheaper to have this done then to purchase chips to handle 200 player tournaments.
Another solution >> sell the chips & purchase new ones.

Poker Orifice · Dec 17, 2009

Is this ^ one of the chips from the game? (I found it in the washroom)

IcyBlueAce · Dec 17, 2009

You can't countfiet stickers that change from game to game, jeeze I thought some of this stuff was obvious.

Live game cheating problem. Advice needed.

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