Not cut out for Hold'em?

Ive said Holdem was my weakest game in a blog on here before but after watching more and more poker on tv and reading more and more strategy on the game I would have to say its now in my top two.

Thank you!!
I still have my kids and this isnt my 1st rodeo. Ill be good to go soon.

Cowboy8112 said:

You need to remember, poker is a GAME, it is meant to be won! There is no reason you can't put on your "poker face" and become a lieing, coniveing gold digging bitch, and still be sweet and loving when you step away from the table.

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Somehow I've missed reading this thread until today. (dang!!)

I've read every word and reply. Interesting. Wide variation of opinions. Had the urge to quote many replies, but chose only Cowboy's (to try to keep this short and readable).

"poker is a GAME" .. is it really just 'one game'?? Each style of game has it's own distinct variances, nuances and strategies. Stud is 'one' game, while nlhe is also 'one' game, but quite different. Game variants were MEANT to satisfy the particular interests of THAT GROUP of players.

Online, players who do not want to play limit stud will often do so, kicking and screaming all the way to the rail. I started playing 5card draw and 5 & 7 stud live in '69 when casino nlhe tables were sitting empty. I STILL prefer stud, and so do those of us who choose to sit at any of the 'limit' tables.

In the reverse, you do not see stud/limit players kicking and screaming at the nlhe tables about how 'bad' no limit games are. At casinos, players choose the ONE table they prefer to play at, the games that interest THEM. Online, many players are multi-tabling 12 tables, playing anything they can get into, P.U.I. (playing under the influence), and often using chat to pound their hairless chests. This is just the nature of online nlhe players in all too many cases. Products of TV poker and anonymous, over-inflated egos.

Exclude, please, those few players who DO take their online and live games seriously. The existence of forums shows the difference. There are TENS of MILIONS of online players, while only a few hundred THOUSAND forum members, and a vast number of those are only there for FR passwords.

"meant to be won"<<- even this is deceiving imo. 'What' is 'won'? Each hand? Each session? Each MTT? All, of course, but that is not possible. Winning has to be whatever it means to the player. I 'win' if I leave a ring session with a profit. I 'win' if I make it anywhere ITM in an MTT. I have an overall 'win' rate at ring sessions, while I have never taken 'first' in an MTT, but I'm thrilled with having made second a few times. Does that make me a 'loser'? My 4 site's BR's from -0- lead me to say - 'not'.

"poker face" .. we cannot be happy or satisfied players if we do not like what we 'look like' in the mirror. Why force yourself to change your personality to play nlhe 'correctly'? I find more satisfaction playing at the limit games and that keeps ME happy. On Stars, I make most all of my Round 2 tickets playing the limit FR's and always have several in the 'ticket bank'. I also use those tickets ONLY in the limit Round 2's.

Just my .02c, but don't try to be what you are not. We should all know our limitations. Play nlhe if you must, and play as well as you can, but concentrate on playing what makes YOU happy and gives you personal satisfaction, whatever that means to YOU.

Nick, where you drunk when you wrote all that?

you missed the mark on everything you said as it relates to this thread.

This thread is about Holdem, not any other game. so your 40 years of playing stud doesnt come into play here.

Poker is a GAME!!, and Yes it is meant to be won, there is nothing deceiving about that.

DB wanted to know if she should give up Holdem because she isnt aggressive enough. That it wasnt in her nature to be dishonest.

I told her she CAN be aggressive at the tables and still be herself away from the tables.

Everyone should try to be what they are not, its called growing. As a person or a poker player. As the old saying goes "Even a fool knows you cant touch the stars, but that wont keep the wise man from trying"

^^^So glad to have Cowboy back in the threads!!!

Anyhoo, dive, I'm the same way. I think I'm a decent NLHE player, but I'm just not aggressive enough to really do well in it. But Omaha 8/b is my game. I almost always double my money when I toss a few bucks into the pot on those tables. And, I realized that my play at higher stakes was better too in Omaha. Now, I just need to get my br up there enough to play them to win.

Just do what you need to do to make yourself happy. And it would be nice if we held a couple of freerolls on here in the PLO or PLO8.

Cowboy8112 said:

Nick, where you drunk when you wrote all that?

you missed the mark on everything you said as it relates to this thread.

This thread is about Holdem, not any other game. so your 40 years of playing stud doesnt come into play here.

Poker is a GAME!!, and Yes it is meant to be won, there is nothing deceiving about that.

DB wanted to know if she should give up Holdem because she isnt aggressive enough. That it wasnt in her nature to be dishonest.

I told her she CAN be aggressive at the tables and still be herself away from the tables.

Everyone should try to be what they are not, its called growing. As a person or a poker player. As the old saying goes "Even a fool knows you cant touch the stars, but that wont keep the wise man from trying"

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Not drunk at all (I don't drink OR smoke). DB said: "I don't wanna be that person. I feel bad for fooling people to fold." I used (and clearely stated it was in regards to me) that playing limit can be most 'unlike' no limit games. Why play something that makes you something you "don't wanna be"?

DB asked is essence 'what she should do'? Am I not entitled to an opinion? ANY game other than nlhe is for someone who does not like what it takes to play. What about "Be what and who you are, not what someone else thinks you should be"?

My example using stud was justification for MY opinion about NOT having to change. Not having to be someone I am not, just as she should pursue whatever game wiggles her crank.

You 'reach for the stars'. They don't interest me. I'll dig for gold, may never find any, but it won't keep me from digging.

DB goes on to say: "I love HORSE". All 5 are limit games, which led me to my comparison of limit vs. no limit games. Maybe you weren't reading everything she wrote.

dg1267 said:

Anyhoo, dive, I'm the same way. I think I'm a decent NLHE player, but I'm just not aggressive enough to really do well in it. But Omaha 8/b is my game. I almost always double my money when I toss a few bucks into the pot on those tables. And, I realized that my play at higher stakes was better too in Omaha. Now, I just need to get my br up there enough to play them to win.

Just do what you need to do to make yourself happy. And it would be nice if we held a couple of freerolls on here in the PLO or PLO8.

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All poker games are great games, if YOU enjoy playing them and can do well. Keep doing what works for you. Any variation from nlhe MTT's would be welcomed by me also.

The only problem with PLO or any of the PL games is that especially in FR's, they are even more like nlhe, only going to all-ins even quicker. As a general rule, nlhe FR's (a few forum FR's excluded) bust close to 2/3 of the field in the first hour. In PL games it is not uncommon for 3/4 of the field to be gone the first hour.

At least speaking for our own live Omaha MTT's here in town, the play is soooo much better, it makes it a pleasurable, and profitable game.

As a general rule, nlhe FR's (a few forum FR's excluded) bust close to 2/3 of the field in the first hour. In PL games it is not uncommon for 3/4 of the field to be gone the first hour.

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My reasons exactly!

nevadanick said:

"poker is a GAME" .. is it really just 'one game'?? Each style of game has it's own distinct variances, nuances and strategies. Stud is 'one' game, while nlhe is also 'one' game, but quite different.

Online, players who do not want to play limit stud will often do so, kicking and screaming all the way to the rail.

In the reverse, you do not see stud/limit players kicking and screaming at the nlhe tables about how 'bad' no limit games are. At casinos, players choose the ONE table they prefer to play at, the games that interest THEM. Online, many players are multi-tabling 12 tables, playing anything they can get into, P.U.I. (playing under the influence), and often using chat to pound their hairless chests. This is just the nature of online nlhe players in all too many cases. Products of TV poker and anonymous, over-inflated egos.

Exclude, please, those few players who DO take their online and live games seriously. The existence of forums shows the difference. There are TENS of MILIONS of online players, while only a few hundred THOUSAND forum members, and a vast number of those are only there for FR passwords.

"meant to be won"<<- even this is deceiving imo. 'What' is 'won'? Each hand? Each session? Each MTT? All, of course, but that is not possible. Winning has to be whatever it means to the player. I 'win' if I leave a ring session with a profit. I 'win' if I make it anywhere ITM in an MTT. I have an overall 'win' rate at ring sessions, while I have never taken 'first' in an MTT, but I'm thrilled with having made second a few times. Does that make me a 'loser'? My 4 site's BR's from -0- lead me to say - 'not'.

"poker face" .. we cannot be happy or satisfied players if we do not like what we 'look like' in the mirror. Why force yourself to change your personality to play nlhe 'correctly'? I find more satisfaction playing at the limit games and that keeps ME happy. On Stars, I make most all of my Round 2 tickets playing the limit FR's and always have several in the 'ticket bank'. I also use those tickets ONLY in the limit Round 2's.

Just my .02c, but don't try to be what you are not. We should all know our limitations. Play nlhe if you must, and play as well as you can, but concentrate on playing what makes YOU happy and gives you personal satisfaction, whatever that means to YOU.

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Shortened your post a bit, hope you don't mind. Good point about poker being many games. I think though, what Cowboy was trying to say is that I can play any game to win any way I can - and still walk away and be who I am (or was?). It was very well intentioned, although I don't think he realizes how hard an adjustment it might be. While I feel like 'crouching tiger' with certain tablemates' play, and can't wait for any opportunity to blow them away, I feel awful making some BS move that makes someone (who I think is tight, earned his chips, doesn't raise with junk, or even try to steal in every HU checking match) fold.

So, I fully agree with the notion of playing something you like and are suited to (since there's plenty of alternatives to NLHE to choose from), as opposed to forcing yourself to make adjustments that go against the very grain of your personality or temperament. Also agree with you that if you are going to play (as I enjoy CC freerolls and would like to do the buy-ins too), might as well try to improve my game.

Funny, most of my Round 2 tix at PS have been limit as well, but well over half in Omaha (even 2 in NL H/L ). Can't wait to use the 11 I've stock-piled since Sept.. All the games I like are Sunday at 2, which = football time. Guess they'll come in handy in the dog days of winter. Thanks much for the thoughtful reply & encouragement.

Cowboy8112 said:

Poker is a GAME!!, and Yes it is meant to be won, there is nothing deceiving about that.

DB wanted to know if she should give up Holdem because she isnt aggressive enough. That it wasnt in her nature to be dishonest.

I told her she CAN be aggressive at the tables and still be herself away from the tables.

Everyone should try to be what they are not, its called growing.

Click to expand...

Interesting. I'm not so sure this is possible for everyone. Perhaps a better way to say it is 'be the best person (or in this case, NLHE player) you can or wanna be, whatever shape that takes. And I can be quite aggressive and assertive in many situations. It's just that I have to work on it a lot harder than some at it when the larger degree (than limit) of elements inherent in NLHE (i.e. bluffing, bullying, not to mention risk if you are called, raised) are present. But good points. The Harrington books are 'on the truck', and hopefully will provide some means to that end.

dg1267 said:

^^^So glad to have Cowboy back in the threads!!!

Anyhoo, dive, I'm the same way. I think I'm a decent NLHE player, but I'm just not aggressive enough to really do well in it. But Omaha 8/b is my game. I almost always double my money when I toss a few bucks into the pot on those tables. And, I realized that my play at higher stakes was better too in Omaha. Now, I just need to get my br up there enough to play them to win.

Just do what you need to do to make yourself happy. And it would be nice if we held a couple of freerolls on here in the PLO or PLO8.

Click to expand...

My game too, and hope to improve even more when Hwang's book gets here, every little bit helps. Wouldn't the occasional Omaha freeroll be fantastic? I honestly don't think there's anyone here that would turn down playing just because they prefer NLHE. I mean we play our NLHEs when we'd prefer Omaha, right? Thanks for the reply!

nevadanick said:

DB goes on to say: "I love HORSE". All 5 are limit games, which led me to my comparison of limit vs. no limit games.

The only problem with PLO or any of the PL games is that especially in FR's, they are even more like nlhe, only going to all-ins even quicker. As a general rule, nlhe FR's (a few forum FR's excluded) bust close to 2/3 of the field in the first hour. In PL games it is not uncommon for 3/4 of the field to be gone the first hour.

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I missed your last post this morning. Started replying yesterday, before you wrote it, and didn't refrsh the screen. Was afraid of losing what I wrote. Anway...

Even in HORSE, my least fave game is holdem. Maybe it's the constant exposure to NLHE that gnaws on my subconscious, maybe a little Pavlovian (just making up words now). :laugh:

Interesting observation on the PLO field thinning faster than NLHE. Trying to figure out what might account for that. Possibly more people are willing to call a pre-flop raise when they see more possibilities (than holdem) in their hand. Also, more people (some very misguided) will also see more drawing possibilities post-flop, and before long they are pot committed. Then when their nut flush gets busted by a paired board on the river, they tilt. What do you think?

LOL The paired board is so hard for people to grasp in Omaha. When that board is paired, you better have a good hand or you might as well fold.

I think that's why Omaha is a lot easier for me to deal with. I can get away from marginal hands a lot quicker in Omaha than I can in NLHE.

nothing wrong with mixing up your games

I think to have a such a variety of poker games and choices is what makes poker so fun and keeps it fresh and people coming back to play more.

GL all!
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeetest!

Just find your niche. Whether it's hold em, omaha, razz, or budagi, it doesn't really matter, just play what you like and what you feel comfortable with.

As for feeling bad about making people fold, I'm not sure I understand that. It's part of poker.

Holdem

I've played poker all my life but had never played Holdem until about a year ago. I didn't like it at first and couldn't understand why it was so popular. I kept playing it though as my son in law plays all the time and has so much fun. Eventually I begin to like it more and more. I think it was because I got better at it. lol....What ever you play, enjoy and have fun. Good luck at the tables.

silverslugger33 said:

Just find your niche. Whether it's hold em, omaha, razz, or budagi, it doesn't really matter, just play what you like and what you feel comfortable with.

As for feeling bad about making people fold, I'm not sure I understand that. It's part of poker.

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Not 'folding' per se. No problem with a semi-bluff in a very small field (i.e. middle pair plus flush draw). It's more the 'outright' bluff, when I have nothing or know that I'm probably beat - but the other person probably has something, but can be taken off his/her hand. I don't like taking advantage of a short-stack or the blinds. I know it's part of poker. I know. I just struggle with it a bit. But good advice, thanks much!

Jodieblonde said:

I've played poker all my life but had never played Holdem until about a year ago. I didn't like it at first and couldn't understand why it was so popular. I kept playing it though as my son in law plays all the time and has so much fun. Eventually I begin to like it more and more. I think it was because I got better at it. lol....What ever you play, enjoy and have fun. Good luck at the tables.

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An excellent point. I think if I set my mind on conquering a few demons, and actually learn by applying new (to me) concepts (tricks ), I'll be more successful and look at the whole game differently - more positively. Thanks much, and good luck to you too!

Not everyone likes hold em. Its just about what YOU'RE good at. Some are great stud players and play that all the time. Not all games are for everyone. I personally can't stand Omaha hi/lo. But thats just me

Divebitch said:

Help and anyone's precious time is always appreciated. 'Answers' are never absolute. But if you can't add much, I sure appreciate the thought. Thanks!

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It wasn't a thought It was a compliment to you on your knowledge
of the topic. Most of the time when I laugh (lol) I do it with my heart ..

Nexus6 said:

It wasn't a thought It was a compliment to you on your knowledge
of the topic. Most of the time when I laugh (lol) I do it with my heart ..

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The only knowledge I have on the topic is that I need more knowledge. Tell you the truth, that's more than some people I've run into seem to have on the topic. :laugh: But thanks for the compliment.

Divebitch said:

The only knowledge I have on the topic is that I need more knowledge. Tell you the truth, that's more than some people I've run into seem to have on the topic. :laugh: But thanks for the compliment.

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(Tell you the truth, that's more than some people I've run into seem to have on the topic. :laugh: But thanks for the compliment. )

I suspect you speak with a double edged tongue ,, hiss hiss lol.. I liiiike you no matter what.

I guess thats the difference between you and I . But it can still work out between us . lol

Sincerely Nexus6
PS Im going to play in the ultimatebet thur freeroll are you? just wanted to be able to chat while playing my first one ...

Take care and keep your powder dry...