Not understanding own hand?

In a live game, is it the responsibility of spectators or other players to let a person know that they have won the hand when they think they have lost, or declared they have lost (all hands in the pot are shown)?
Is there a defined rule on this? Is it just ettiquette, or actually illegal?

I would think it to be illegal to get outside help like that. Most live tables have monitors watching for that where I have played.

If you cannot tell that you have won a pot in poker then you should not play, I am not telling no incompetent fool that he just won the pot if the mucks.

Its just an opinion, but im sure someone will tell him.

It's not the dealers responsiblity, but most of the time the dealer catches it. However, you have to catch the dealer the times they try to award a pot you win to your opponant.

A general rule is, if you aren't in the hand, keep your mouth shut about the hand.

It's your hand, it's your responsibility to know what kind of hand you have. The dealer's responsibility is to announce the winner of that hand and exchange chips to the winning player. If a dealer is wrong about your hand, let your hand be known. That is your responsibility.

TPC said:

A general rule is, if you aren't in the hand, keep your mouth shut about the hand.

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Good advice.

I hate when other people who are not in the hand try to help. It's the hand holder's responsibility to see if he won or not.

TPC said:

It's not the dealers responsiblity

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That is exactly what the dealer gets paid for, and is 100% their responsibility that the pot gets pushed to the correct player. If all cards are face up, it doesn't matter if you know if you have the best hand or not, it goes to where the best hand is.

If a player doesn't know that they're good, and puts their cards face down in the middle of the table it is the dealers responsibility to put that hand in the muck and not turn it over.

These two facts make it imperative, no matter what, if you go to a showdown in a live game FLIP YOUR HAND OVER. The hand at showdown can be asked to be seen by any other player that got delt cards that hand, so you might as well just show your hand. I've seen many people that have not shown their cards and latter claim they had the best hand....to bad. There's no shame in showing your hand, and if you're embarrassed then maybe you should have played the hand differently.

It's not the dealers responsibility. Responsibility lies in the player knowing if he has the best hand or not.

If the cards are all face up, the dealer should award it to the best hand. Is it a rule you have to announce your hand? I agree with the rest of whats been said, but if the cards are face up on the table I wouldn't think it would matter.

If my hand is laying face up on the table I don't have to say a word as to what my final 5 cards are. All I have to do is show my hand.

Example 1:
Player A is from Russia and Player B is from USA, and they're playing a $1/$2 cash game in Atlantic City. Player A and B are in a pot and it goes to showdown, doesn't matter how. Player B shows his hand, says he has a pair of aces. Player A doesn't speak any english, has no idea what Player B said, so he just shows his hand and has 2 pair, but only speaking Russian doesn't know how to say he has two pair in english. The dealer, will take the two hands, place them next to the community cards, and push up the best 5 card hand. Player A has said nothing to declare what his hand is, yet win the hand because it is the dealers responsibility to make sure the best hand wins the pot.

If a hand is placed face up at showdown, the best hand will win every time and you have to show a better hand than that to win the pot, no matter what you think your final 5 card hand is. I know that when I'm playing live and see two hands get shown I will always say what the best hand is. I have never encountered a problem with this, and have never had anybody argue with my pointing out the winning hand.

So it appears that after ~11 replies, there are only opinions and no concrete answer yet. The first reply gave the thought 'one player, one hand' whereas the latest gave a great example and seemed to say that if the cards are face up, it is the dealers responsibility to point out the winning hand.
Any reference to a concrete answer? I have read 'Roberts Rules' and found nothing.

Here is the rules from Roberts Rules of Poker

POKER ETIQUETTE

The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:
Deliberately acting out of turn.
Deliberately splashing chips into the pot.
Agreeing to check a hand out when a third player is all-in.
Softplaying by refusing to bet against a certain opponent whenever heads-up.
Reading a hand for another player at the showdown before it has been placed faceup on the table.
Telling anyone to turn a hand faceup at the showdown.
Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete.

^^These are if the hand HAS NOT been turned up.

Once its turned up then this

THE SHOWDOWN

1. To win any part of a pot, a player must show all of his cards faceup on the table, whether they were used in the final hand played or not.
2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)
3. Any player, dealer, or floorperson who sees an incorrect amount of chips put into the pot, or an error about to be made in awarding a pot, has an ethical obligation to point out the error. Please help keep mistakes of this nature to a minimum.



So basically You can't tell a player to turn up their cards at the showdown or tell them what they have UNTIL they have turned them up once turned up then the table should help the dealer reward the correct hand. EVEN if not in the hand.

Excellent! Thank you.

When I read that line, being in a different frame of mind, I interpreted it differently.

It is indeed the dealers responsibility to declare the winner of the hand. Seems like it would be kind of wild west to have players duke it out themselves. Guess you could bluff....with your six gun! lol

Oz will probably come in here and agree with my post as usual LOL. Usually if there are Poker Rule questions He or I can answer them, He is a dealer and I have dealt at many home games and other tournaments and anytime I get involved in a game of any type I like to know the rules, I have read the rules for poker many times, occasionally something strange happens and I'm not sure of the ruling but will search and find the right answer.

I'm trying to put together a rules quiz to see what people really know.

Oz is a dealer? I didn't know that... cool.
I used to be a dealer a long time ago.

Grossberger said:

I'm trying to put together a rules quiz to see what people really know.

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That would be cool.

Oh and I know lots of dealers, oh wait nvm...

TPC said:

It's not the dealers responsibility. Responsibility lies in the player knowing if he has the best hand or not.

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It is 100% the dealers job to award the pot to the winning hand. If 2 hands are turned over the player has no responsibility except to protect his own interest. So if I turn my cards over and say King high flush when I actually have a FH, the dealer will still award me the pot if my opponent has the Ace high flush. My stupidity should never cost the winning hand the pot.

WVHillbilly said:

It is 100% the dealers job to award the pot to the winning hand. If 2 hands are turned over the player has no responsibility except to protect his own interest. So if I turn my cards over and say King high flush when I actually have a FH, the dealer will still award me the pot if my opponent has the Ace high flush. My stupidity should never cost the winning hand the pot.

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With help from the other players after all dealers are human also and can make mistakes. I don't care how good you are at your job you will make mistakes.