Poker Knowledge

In your opinion does research on poker help you?

I know a lot of people learn a lot from books but I dont get much. I learn a lot from experiance and tips from other players. Books cant help anybody 100% because if everybody played by the book there would be thousands of Phil Helmuth's out there.

I voted for "Books" and "Hard Knocks" (ie: practice). Everything else is a bonus.

i dont rely on books to much. maybe that is why iam no pro. i find i learn the most by watching their play, i figure they can write whatever they think you want to hear but when you watch them play you see how they actually play that specific hand

For me I have to say forums. (Only this one of course!)Their experiences and game levels more closely mirror mine than the pros.

No one thing should be relied on completly. Books are good, but there are no absolutes in Poker so they can only take you so far. Nothing makes up for experience. I would put watching on TV last.What you see on TV can get you in trouble more often then not. Why is that? Thought you'd never ask. Poker on TV is highly edited: you only see a handful of the more "exciting" hands. Most poker, even in tournaments is more grind it out, make small pots, steal blinds kind of play, not exciting but the nuts and bolts of poker. This is why we see so many all-in moves online. They think this is the way to play because that's what they see on tv. Often what you see is different from the way most of the tournament was played: On the wpt for example the blinds raise much faster on the final tv table then durring the rest of play. During the tournament blinds increase every 90 mins, in the final tv table they increase every 30 mins. This greatly changes the play and forces players to make moves and push in their chips. Also, alot of what you see on tv is short handed. WPT tv final table is 6 players. Most wsop event shown are final tables which of course get widdled down to one. Short handed play is vastly different than full table play but many people that only get their poker knowledge from TV don't understand this. And finally: Just because Gus Hansen does it doesn;t mean you should. Many pros play a looser more maniac style than most new players should even though they emulate it. Pros that play loose like this have a couple thoughts in mind. One; they need to get a large stack fairly quickly to be successful so they don't mind taking chances early. They would rather bust out in the first couple of hours trying to accumulate chips then limp into the money with a short stack. Understand that that is why they play like that if you want to play like them. Understand that you will be busted out early very often in MTT play. Another thing about these pros is that they are very good at reading other players. They know when to give up their rags and when they can bluff the other player. It's a skill most of us don't have at their level so trying to play their hand selection without their skill sets is asking for disaster.

Overall I would say the best way to get better; play, play, play, read everything you can find, including chat forums and short articles, but understand that every single situation is different and anything you read or hear is a guidline and not the gospel.

I discount TV for the most part. Those hands are nearly always cherrypicked and typically represent an atypical or totally bizarre play. Very few hands on TV are truly played in a textbook fashion. Problem is, you don't have the insight that the TV player does as to why they did what they did when it was so extreme. This is why so many idiots push all in PF with hands like Q9 on the first hand of tournies. They think it is right because they saw it on TV.

Jack Daniels said:

I discount TV for the most part. Those hands are nearly always cherrypicked and typically represent an atypical or totally bizarre play. Very few hands on TV are truly played in a textbook fashion. Problem is, you don't have the insight that the TV player does as to why they did what they did when it was so extreme. This is why so many idiots push all in PF with hands like Q9 on the first hand of tournies. They think it is right because they saw it on TV.

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very valid point. reality tv is not really reality tv. no wonder i suck at poker.lol

Before you dismiss all of TV...have you ever watched the Poker Dome series?? There are a lot of meaningless hands shown there. I'll grant you that you're watching amatures AND there is some editing but I feel it can still be a useful learning tool.

Having said that, I'm looking for the choice "all of the above" because I really feel like I've benefited from everything that is listed. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably say my experience has helped the most though....

I voted for the last option, because it encompasses it all really.

VERY few if any people read 6 books, watch 90 hours of poker on TV, and join a poker forum without having sat at a table and lost.

At this stage i have years of experience at the tables and in essence it took myself ( option 3) to realise that i had the making of a half decent player, and then used the options available to me to become a better one.

Hope that makes sense.

Edit : Just realised my next post is number 2,000. Going to have to think up something half thoughtful for that one.

I voted for forums b/c since joining CC my game has greatly improved.
BTW Nick,JQ, DM, if you need a testimonial for CC I'm your man....lol

TV for me,,, if i pay attention i can learn from tv,,, when i read about poker i tend to forget what i read,,, but the best experiance is playing.
buck

I voted for Books but when I first started out, getting embarrassed at tables made me want to learn more. I then started watching Poker Night Live which has helped and also joined forums (this one being the best!). But I feel my whole outlook on the game has changed and improved greatly after reading poker books.

I think playing combined with analysis of results and self-analysis will lead you forward. That said, there are some great articles around to teach the fundamentals on odds, implieds, equity etc...But the true gems need to be discovered by yourself.

I voted for books and this forum. Personally I study the game a lot more than I actually play. Probably 70/30. This is my choice right now as I am not trying to make big bucks right now, just trying to grasp as many concepts as I can and put them to the test when I play. I am a much better player since joining this forum but still have a ways to go before I really try to make some good bucks. Its all about learning for me right now.

medeiros13 said:

Before you dismiss all of TV...have you ever watched the Poker Dome series?? There are a lot of meaningless hands shown there. I'll grant you that you're watching amatures AND there is some editing but I feel it can still be a useful learning tool.

Having said that, I'm looking for the choice "all of the above" because I really feel like I've benefited from everything that is listed. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably say my experience has helped the most though....

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I would have to agree here, they show almost every hand and explain what they think the player is trying to do. I saw one that was at least 10 minutes of swapping blinds while they were heads up. Pretty boring TV but if you're going to watch it to learn I pick this.

The Celebrity poker showdown is also a good one because they play most like the donks that we all play. If you want to learn how donks play watch it. plus they had dennis Rodman

Think I'll tivo a couple episodes of poker dome and see. If it is what you say, that would be cool. I watch celebrity poker for fun and don't put so much study into it. When I'm educating my self, I like to look to better sources than watching celebs play after taking a class the night before. i know they get the occasional good player, but by and large I don't see as much educational value in it. Maybe that is because I know where I am with my game and I know what I want to change around or work on. So, I can see some value of being on the list, I guess, but if I ranked the choices, I'd make TV last.

the school of hard knocks. I tend to remember those DUH !!!!! moments by how much real money I lost with that stupid move. DUH!!!!! Does it always work. Well I certainly think twice, three, four times before i attempt it again.lol

The best way to learn is the hard way. The best thing about this forum is that we learn from other player's mistakes (and successes).

medeiros13 said:

Before you dismiss all of TV...have you ever watched the Poker Dome series?? There are a lot of meaningless hands shown there. I'll grant you that you're watching amatures AND there is some editing but I feel it can still be a useful learning tool.

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I agree, Meds. I like to watch PokerDome because it's amateurs VS amateurs. Watching pros VS pros is helpful only if you are going to play against pros also. But I think PokerDome captures more "real-world" circumstances like you would see at the local cardroom or casino (or even online).

Also, watching some of the bonehead plays on the PokerDome show makes me wonder how many of these folks even qualified for it. I wanted to try to qualify on the Mansion poker site myself until I heard about all the technical problems they have there.