poker players overestimate the skill factor in their play

AlfieAA · Oct 6, 2012

mystic meg here saying he can put people on specific hands.......

Deco · Oct 6, 2012

What hand reading? Sounds pretty standard unless I'm missing something.

It's rare we can put a villain on an exact hand but we're always coming up with a range of hands villain can have.

I remember a hand yesterday where I pretty much knew what are nitty villain had. He has 66 and only 66 here.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1935381
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $274.27
Hero (UTG): $100.00
UTG+1: $75.63
MP1: $105.47
MP2: $137.90
CO: $40.96
BTN: $137.43
SB: $143.63

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with K :diamond: T :diamond:
Hero raises to $3.50, UTG+1 calls $3.50, MP1 calls $3.50, 5 folds

Flop: ($12.00) 6 :diamond: A :spade: K :club: (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $6, MP1 calls $6, Hero folds

Turn: ($24.00) 5 :heart: (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $12, MP1 raises to $25

He's a 10/8 so he isn;t bluffing or playing A6s/A5s.
AK/KK+ 3bets.
AQ and worse is too weak to raise

Deco · Oct 6, 2012

I really shouldn 't be wading in to something I haven't read again but I'm really bored.

From what I've glimpsed gus is just referring to hand reading although I disagree with him when he says the skill of this rules out luck as we can run in to the top of villains range alot more than we should, this counts for much more than EV for most people who don't have really sick EV lines.

If I was MP1 with his 66 in the hand above and UTG triple barrelled his range would be mostly hands I beat yet if he happened to have AA that would just be bad luck.

gus201 · Oct 6, 2012

Hey deco just wondering is this the way they disagree with a newer member here at CC ?

fletchdad · Oct 6, 2012

Deco,
unless I am understanding gus wrong - and I made a point to establish what it was he was talking about - he is on about knowing a players had preflop. He spoke of putting a player on a specific hand - in the example it was AJ, altho even with his skillz he didnt seem to know suits... lol - and I made a statement about ranges and not exact hands pre, and thats how my disillusionment and disagreement with gus came about. He claims he can put a guy on AN EXACT HAND PRE.

I beg to differ.

gus201 · Oct 6, 2012

oh noo start at the beginning not in the middle there first Fletch

fletchdad · Oct 6, 2012

gus201 said:
It started by me saying try to put players on a hand preflop LOL

they are trying every possible way to debunk that a player can do this LOL

we are now in the stages of being challenged to do under flech's terms now

lol I left the terms up to you. I merly said I would bet money - MY money - against YOUR money that you cannot do this.

You say you can. Easy money for you.....

But you wont??? Or cant....

fletchdad · Oct 6, 2012

gus201 said:
oh noo start at the beginning not in the middle there first Fletch

OK, you just like to have confrontation.

I tried to take you seriously, my bad.

gus201 · Oct 6, 2012

fletchdad said:
lol I left the terms up to you. I merly said I would bet money - MY money - against YOUR money that you cannot do this.

You say you can. Easy money for you.....

But you wont??? Or cant....

I have nothing to gain and you wont admit it if i did it so whats the purpose here . you and your gang have started to call me names and tried to make fun of me for what ? really all this for what ?

Good entertainment or to settle your ego and keep the fact that some players can and do do this at the tables .

AlfieAA · Oct 6, 2012

i think gus is a troll account lol....and im not calling you names, its just abit banter....obv you cant take it....thats not my problemo....gl at the tables

darkassassin89 · Oct 6, 2012

Lets ask the good professor this, I under estimate my play. I think I'm sucking a lot and need to improve my game everyday. Everyday I can be better, and yet, I see my money steadily growing. Not everyday, but over the course of years of playing. It has gone up. So, I must be super lucky. Thank God, I've been thinking all my wins were purely stupid! Now I know! Thanks research!

(Anyone sense the sarcasm?)

darkassassin89 · Oct 6, 2012

fletchdad said:
Deco,
unless I am understanding gus wrong - and I made a point to establish what it was he was talking about - he is on about knowing a players had preflop. He spoke of putting a player on a specific hand - in the example it was AJ, altho even with his skillz he didnt seem to know suits... lol - and I made a statement about ranges and not exact hands pre, and thats how my disillusionment and disagreement with gus came about. He claims he can put a guy on AN EXACT HAND PRE.

I beg to differ.

Well I like to play like Daniel negruano also. Putting people on hands. Then I figure out a range that fit the play. I'm not always right but when I am it's a nice Ego boost, just saying

ovitoo · Oct 6, 2012

Deco said:
What hand reading? Sounds pretty standard unless I'm missing something.

It's rare we can put a villain on an exact hand but we're always coming up with a range of hands villain can have.

I remember a hand yesterday where I pretty much knew what are nitty villain had. He has 66 and only 66 here.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1935381
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $274.27
Hero (UTG): $100.00
UTG+1: $75.63
MP1: $105.47
MP2: $137.90
CO: $40.96
BTN: $137.43
SB: $143.63

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is UTG with K ♦ T ♦
Hero raises to $3.50, UTG+1 calls $3.50, MP1 calls $3.50, 5 folds

Flop: ($12.00) 6 ♦ A ♠ K ♣ (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $6, MP1 calls $6, Hero folds

Turn: ($24.00) 5 ♥ (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $12, MP1 raises to $25

He's a 10/8 so he isn;t bluffing or playing A6s/A5s.
AK/KK+ 3bets.
AQ and worse is too weak to raise

This is different than the gus201 theory. You made your read after action otf.

ovitoo · Oct 6, 2012

@gus201

Do you feel that you have a unique ability? If so, why are you surprised that so many don't relate to your ideology.

In the future, when you post your opinion, and you get a couple ppl who completely disagree. It's fine to argue your side. When 5-6 ppl show up in opposition to your idea, then it is time to either let them go on discussing without you or have an educated debate. But claiming your being victimized and threatening to leave is just borrish.

The thing with us members, we don't like to let someone get the final say if we feel its misinformation. It's great that you found something that works for you. This strategy of "feeling" and preflop reads is not something that can be taught. It's not something any player can just expect to acheive. Therefore, us who are interested in helping, or just not misinforming, others are going to contradict your opinion.

So last thing. If you have a unique idea, expect contradiction. And don't take it as being malicious bc we're just doing it in the best interest of everyone else who reads the thread.

darkassassin89 · Oct 6, 2012

And to top it off we are very very opinionated here at CC so if you cat take criticism don't bother posting

duggs · Oct 6, 2012

Deco, gus is essentially saying that having good reading skills ie putting villians on a specific hand preflop eg AJo is more important than understanding any maths involved in the game

Deco · Oct 7, 2012

Hand Reading > Maths
It isn't very often I'm calculating pots odds. Combonatorics I use more often but that's pretty much just multiplicatiuon.

Hand reading I use every single hand. But ye honestly im blind drunk right now and im being a dick for joining an argument when i can't be bothered reading the whole thread. I just thought people where finding the concept of hand reading absurd. If it involves predicting the hand based on preflop action alone then that is mystic meg shit. I think I'm just in stick up for the new guy mode as I made a second 2+2 account and with my 12post count I'm getting ripped left right and centre

. Standard probably.

At the very least I think gus's response to the first critisizm of his posts was over the top, even if said critisizm was pretty petty.

Deco · Oct 7, 2012

To apologize for interupting the noobie lynch mob I provide you with this gif

darkassassin89 · Oct 7, 2012

^^^^ lol

alibaba194 · May 5, 2024

I know many of you don't agree, but I've always said poker is 75% luck. You can be the best in the world, but without getting good cards, you'll look like the worst. We all remember those big bad beats and getting mad, calling them a lucky SOB. Sometimes patience can turn your luck around, but on those days when luck is on your side, it seems like you can play anything and hit with it. And I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week.

poker players overestimate the skill factor in their play

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