Pokerbots

Hi I just started playing online poker and have been confronted by many pokerbots. Can anyone suggest the poker site that effectively controls pokerbots? Or is that not possible? Thanks.

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How do you know they are pokerbots?? Let me guess, they keep calling with every hand, pokerbots don't call, with every hand!

Ipoker is full of bots not sure about other sites though, the bots can be beat

Gary_Heart said:

Hi I just started playing online poker and have been confronted by many pokerbots. Can anyone suggest the poker site that effectively controls pokerbots? Or is that not possible? Thanks.

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Most of the major, reputable sites & networks, and certainly Pokerstars (unfortunately not available to US players), take a very active and aggressive approach to identifying and eliminating bots.

I would also ask though, what makes you think they're bots? Bots tend to fall into a couple of categories: fairly brain-dead ones that are easily recognizable and exploitable as TAGs/nits, and sophisticated ones that are neither recognizable nor easy to beat. So you shouldn't much mind playing against the former if your game is where it should be, while the latter you wouldn't likely be recognizing as bots in the first place.

Bots will probably always exist to some degree, because the botters are clever and are constantly coding around efforts to block/catch them. However they're far less common than beginning online players think they are. More often than not they're just multitable grinders.

i agree with dmorris 68. you will never know too much playing online who you are up against. you have to accept that going into it. howeever it is frustrating to see potential poker bots and or the rng repeating itself. ive seen it and many have. it is something that you just have to get used to or simply dont play online. i can tell you that many poker sites may deny that they exist but those same companies have told me that these issues do exists by other customer service reps. playing live is a guarantee of randomness and real play.

As long as there are hackers, who play poker, there will be bots. I don't think they are reading your cards, just your ability.

bkniefel said:

i agree with dmorris 68. you will never know too much playing online who you are up against. you have to accept that going into it. howeever it is frustrating to see potential poker bots and or the rng repeating itself. ive seen it and many have. it is something that you just have to get used to or simply dont play online. i can tell you that many poker sites may deny that they exist but those same companies have told me that these issues do exists by other customer service reps. playing live is a guarantee of randomness and real play.

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Both of these bolded statements are incorrect. The first, because random numbers can certainly repeat themselves, and the second because live deals with physical cards will NEVER be as efficiently randomized as any modern RNG can do. Even an elementary one.

Bots have nothing to do with the rigged/RNG discussion. Let's not veer this thread into another rigtard debate. We have a fenced-off rigtard thread for that.

After reading this I might have to change my opinion on BetOnline. I could have guaranteed they were bots, thx for clearing that up.

so do bots actually win. I mean are they good enouph to pull a profit long term.

I have seen the bot talk on here several times,was thinking a bot I am assuming would be programed to play a certain style based on math would it not? Be it a Tag or lag style or somewhere in between would a person not just adjust their game to the style as they would with any opponent. I would think someone with a hud would have stats on your tendencies would a bot not work off the same idea??Not sure if I am on the right track with my thinking if anyone has an answer that would be great.........scorp

supernuts25 said:

so do bots actually win. I mean are they good enouph to pull a profit long term.

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I've moved around in some dark corners of the internet, but that's an underground circle I don't move around in so I just know what has been written about them. While the software developer in me is intrigued by how they work, as someone who enjoys his online poker and has somewhat of a presence in this poker community and others, I don't dare risk putting myself in a situation where I might have to explain why I have one on my computer.

What I do know, as I said above, is there are dumb bots that are cheaply acquired and used in volume to farm the micro stakes playing a very rigid style. These are the ones most often busted because they're more prevalent and recognizable. They don't play high stakes or have big winrates by themselves, but they can be setup en masse to play tons of volume while earning RB, so can generate considerable revenue for the bot operator.

Then there are the really sophisticated/custom/expensive bots that balance their play between strong hands and bluffs, changing up their style based on the table dynamic like any solid player would. They can randomly chat to look like a person. These can potentially be very tough to recognize and beat, but to avoid overexposure they're quite rare and not easy to get. Most of us really shouldn't be worried about them. And most probably aren't going to be wasted on the micros, which is where most beginners seem to think they run into them.

Again, multi-table grinders are often mistaken for bots by the uninformed player, because they're seen playing a lot of tables at once, not engaging in chat, and their style is fairly rigid and robotic in most cases because of the number of tables played.

One thing PS/FTP used to do (and probably still do) is when they suspect a bot in action, either from a player report or their own analysis, a rep would enter the chat window (maybe even pause the game to get everyone's attention) and challenge the player to answer some questions within a certain period of time or else be kicked. Bots can't respond to this. Of course not every player chats either, especially multi-tablers, so sometimes players have been innocently caught up, but it's fairly effective against the more common simple bots.

Bottom line: Pick your poison. There are far more ways to cheat or angle in live poker than online. Bots are such an overall small risk in online play that you shouldn't be overly paranoid about it. If you see something that looks truly suspicious, and seems unlikely to be a grinder, then report the player by name to the site, or even here so that others can participate in the investigation.

challenge the player to answer some questions within a certain period of time or else be kicked
that wouldn't work for me on Full Tilt cause my chat is banned on there, so I guess they would say im a bot and ban me?

bernotas22 said:

challenge the player to answer some questions within a certain period of time or else be kicked
that wouldn't work for me on Full Tilt cause my chat is banned on there, so I guess they would say im a bot and ban me?

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Obv a mod would know or be able to see if you are chat banned or not. I'll leave it at that rather than trudge into waters that could get murky LOL. Besides I don't imagine too many bots would get chat banned, and bring attention to themselves anyhow.

It probably wouldn't get my attention just with chat, as I tend to only keep an eye on chat in cc games, but if a table was paused I'm sure it would if given enough time. It certainly is intrigueing dmo regarding its workings but as you stated, not really something worth risking.

BluffMeAllIn said:

Obv a mod would know or be able to see if you are chat banned or not. I'll leave it at that rather than trudge into waters that could get murky LOL. Besides I don't imagine too many bots would get chat banned, and bring attention to themselves anyhow.

It probably wouldn't get my attention just with chat, as I tend to only keep an eye on chat in cc games, but if a table was paused I'm sure it would if given enough time. It certainly is intrigueing dmo regarding its workings but as you stated, not really something worth risking.

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second level thought here, what if the bot purposely got chat banned to make it seem as it was a real person I don't really see what they are risking Im pretty sure your account wouldn't get banned for saying "your mother is bleep bleep" just a thought

Thank You All for your input.

dmorris68 you asked what made me think they're bots? Well as I said I just started playing online, at BetOnline actually, and my very first day the BetOnline software crashed so I restarted it. After logging in again I found myself at the table and only the blinds were putting in and the big blind took the pot every time because all others were folding. Including me.

This continued and when big blind came to me I won. Next hand I called the big blind from my small blind position and I won again because big blind folded. Next hand I called big blind and they both folded again. I wonder what is going on so I called BB every hand after that and they always folded big and small blind and no one else called. Wound up with thousands of chips grinding in the blinds with no challenge but took a really bad beat when I finally did get challenged by an all in after being moved to a different table. With over half my chips gone I get another all in challenge from the same player (everyone else folding as at the previous table) and take another really bad beat from his junk cards again. I was at risk and out of the freeroll tournement after really only playing two hands.

After reading these posts I guess at the first table I could have been playing fairly brain-dead bots or every one at the table was sitting out??? The player at the second table could have been just really lucky but it was sure weird only the two of us actually played.

Can you tell me what a TAGs/nits is?

Also, it really sounds like a good idea to challenge the suspected bot player to answer some questions within a certain period of time or else be kicked. Do you know of any poker sites available to US players doing that? PS/FTP I don't believe allow US players.

Thank again to all for your help.

i HAVE one question 4 u , how did u know u were playing with a bot

It sounds to me like everyone was sitting out. I don't play on BetOnline so don't know their software -- do they not indicate who is sitting out? In my experience, at least on the sites I play, sitout blinds will automatically fold even to a call. I know I've intentionally called in a friendly game just to try and give them time to sit, like right after a break or a disconnect, but the site just folds them and ships me the pot anyway.

TAG = Tight aggressive. What beginning/intermediate players should strive to be. They have a tight range but when they play, they play aggressively.

Nit = Too tight and usually passive. They pursue only premium hands to showdown and otherwise tend to fold to any aggression. Easily exploitable by thinking players.

The only site I've heard of questioning suspected bots in chat was PokerStars. FTP back in their heyday, I don't recall; possibly so now that they're run by PS.

Gary_Heart said:

Thank You All for your input.

dmorris68 you asked what made me think they're bots? Well as I said I just started playing online, at BetOnline actually, and my very first day the BetOnline software crashed so I restarted it. After logging in again I found myself at the table and only the blinds were putting in and the big blind took the pot every time because all others were folding. Including me.

This continued and when big blind came to me I won. Next hand I called the big blind from my small blind position and I won again because big blind folded. Next hand I called big blind and they both folded again. I wonder what is going on so I called BB every hand after that and they always folded big and small blind and no one else called. Wound up with thousands of chips grinding in the blinds with no challenge but took a really bad beat when I finally did get challenged by an all in after being moved to a different table. With over half my chips gone I get another all in challenge from the same player (everyone else folding as at the previous table) and take another really bad beat from his junk cards again. I was at risk and out of the freeroll tournement after really only playing two hands.

After reading these posts I guess at the first table I could have been playing fairly brain-dead bots or every one at the table was sitting out??? The player at the second table could have been just really lucky but it was sure weird only the two of us actually played.

Can you tell me what a TAGs/nits is?

Also, it really sounds like a good idea to challenge the suspected bot player to answer some questions within a certain period of time or else be kicked. Do you know of any poker sites available to US players doing that? PS/FTP I don't believe allow US players.

Thank again to all for your help.

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Maybe, betonline crashed on every one else to! Players that are sitting out, auto fold.

Hi dmorris68 and kidkvno1,
Thanks you for your thoughts. From what you are saying I'm going to assume they were sit outs or disconnects. However I did not see any indication posted of either.

"TAG = Tight aggressive. What beginning/intermediate players should strive to be. They have a tight range but when they play, they play aggressively."

"Nit = Too tight and usually passive. They pursue only premium hands to showdown and otherwise tend to fold to any aggression. Easily exploitable by thinking players."

Thanks dmorris68 I'll have to try to be more of a TAG than a NIT but man there sure are a lot of over aggressive players out there playing junk to the hilt.

Hi samitheman99, As I mentioned I'm new to online poker and I really do not know now if they were bots, sit outs, or disconnects.

Thanks Again All.

They were almost certainly sitouts then, and not bots. Bots, even dumb ones, aren't going to automatically fold every blind. They have a programmed range that they're calling with and raising with, perhaps even bluffing with.

TAG is a far more profitable style than nit. Nits lose value because everyone just folds when they do take a stand, so they tend to barely beat the rake unless they're playing such insane volume that their low winrate translates into bigger hourly rates. But to be a successful TAG you must also learn how to apply aggression properly, or it will cost you even more money.

Playing junk aggressively would be a LAG style, or loose-aggressive. The worst of these you'll often hear called "LAGtards." With the right skills, LAG is the most profitable style, especially when confronted with a lot of tight or nitty players, because you can run over the table with any two cards. However it's also subject to the biggest swings as it's a high variance style. You have to be keenly aware of when to shift gears and which players to tighten up against. As such, it requires more of an advanced skill to apply properly, unless you have a comfortable bankroll that can withstand large swings while you're learning.

Part of learning poker is learning to adjust to each of these styles. However it takes time and practice to learn, so beginners should stick with the fundamentals of ABC poker and play a TAG style for the most part. When there are LAGtards playing junk aggressively, you note who they are and value town them on your strong hands, or try to see cheap flops with your speculative high-implied-odds hands. Otherwise you stay away from them. Don't be nitty and fold to any aggression when they play back at you, because presumably you're only entering pots with a value range. Learning to read board textures and honing your post-flop skills is crucial, and when learned you can widen your range considerably, but until then it's a lot easier to play post-flop when you play a strong pre-flop range.

Hi dmorris68,
WOW thanks for the quick poker lesson. I applied your thoughts to a BlackChipPoker free roll and wound up in forth so I got a little free cash.

As my first concerns about pokerbots has been cleared up (thanks again) I believe this thread has concluded but I'm not sure how or if I should end this thread. I'm just concerned about staying on topic.

Because I would like to continue with your poker lessons and learning more but again not sure where I would, or if I could do that?

Can you suggest a correct course of action?

Again, Thank All