PokerGo is ruining poker.

AKQ

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  • #2
Merchandising can make a whole lot more annually
if they don't charge the viewer to watch the fight,
FREE incorporates everyone in the community to watch and talk about it
 
Poker Orifice

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  • #3
Chris Rowbach said:

Boxing went to pay for view, and never recovered.
They actually had the best coverage this year that they've ever had!! And it has been FREE!!! (on Youtube & Twitch). ANd they had very long streams covering tournaments that werent' covered in the past years.
Even if a person was only purchasing pokerGO for the Final table, it still only works out to something like $0.12/hr. for some excellent coverage! (the night shift, Ali & Nick is fantastic! Shaun Deeb commentating for a bit was also excellent!)
 
Poker Orifice

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  • #4
Chris Rowbach said:

Boxing went to pay for view, and never recovered.

many people who regularly watched Boxing for years lost interest in it once MMA arrived on the scene.

New player, cashes in one event knows what's best? Not so sure.

I think they've done a great job how they've done it this year. Going forward, maybe retire Lon & Norman. (or keep them for tv coverage for the recs. who don't know much about the game & think the exciting part is "Look! It's a Jack of spades!" )
 
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IronMike9000

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  • #5
Poker Orifice said:
They actually had the best coverage this year that they've ever had!! And it has been FREE!!! (on Youtube & Twitch). ANd they had very long streams covering tournaments that werent' covered in the past years.
Even if a person was only purchasing pokerGO for the Final table, it still only works out to something like $0.12/hr. for some excellent coverage! (the night shift, Ali & Nick is fantastic! Shaun Deeb commentating for a bit was also excellent!)
I watched very little but the common consensus is similar to your opinion, that the coverage was excellent this this year.
 
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  • #6
Sorry, but as regards this issue I am the only person who spoke up here against PokerGo's acquiring of all wsop materials (including historic) and that it was to the detriment of poker when it first happened. Regarding professional poker players, the only player I know that took a brief stand was Doug Polk.

I have detailed my views several times here and the fact is most didn't care.

Poker Orifice - you are correct, PokerGo streamed more live this year than they have in previous years, and it is not a high expense to subscribe. But, I will not subscribe on moral grounds as I dislike Cary Katz and the manner his family built their fortune, which was student loans. As I have noted before the idea Katz is making high roller buy-ins on the backs of students, many of which should never have been encouraged to take loans, does not sit well for me.

I am not going to go on a long tirade here, in part because I now believe that the poker industry is not truly concerned with expanding the game (this I have also explained previously) and most within the industry are happy with their slice of the poker pie. That said what I do dislike on a wider note is how both PokerGo and GG Poker have muscled into the core of the game via WSOP when, for instance, the ownership of GG Poker remains somewhat opaque (again, no one seems to really care).

But I will leave with a curious admission (mistake?) which Remko Rinkema made during the Main Event Bubble stream which showed how much PokerGo has restricted viewership. First, as I have pointed out before, the WSOP streams which previously went live to You Tube regularly attracted world viewing figures of hundreds of thousands every day - the entire WSOP racking up tens of millions of views. Further they remained on You Tube where you could watch a Main Event from any year from start to finish at ones leisure.

However, during the Main Event bubble stream, one of the most watched few hours of the entire event (perhaps only eclipsed by the final few tables) Remko was pushing for likes as they do every stream. Then Remko said something before thinking (I presume this a gaffe) he stated the viewing numbers on I believe Twitch, but then PokerGo and YouTube.

What he said was that they presently had 2,000 viewers on Twitch, that they had 2,000 on PokerGO and they 40,000 on YouTube. I was astonished he gave the figures out (providing it was true and accurate and not a verbal gaffe) because what it indicated was so few were watching on PokerGo itself. Now, you could read any number of things into this but I think it hard to make any case this is a positive for poker itself and helping the industry in any sense.

For one thing (not that this would happen) it would be really interesting to see the average, behind paywall, daily figures PokerGo enjoys and compare them to say Hustler Casino live streams let alone EPT live streams which of course go free to air as one would say.

As I love me some Alexandra Botez I am happy she spoke up, and she appears to have gotten quite a lot of support!
 
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MK_

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  • #7
I'm old enough to remember when the wsop was streamed live online at wsop.com and on espn... hours and hours of coverage of all kinds of wsop events and it was a big deal

The wsop has basically destroyed their own value, no one even knows it's even being played right now except regulars.

I really don't see how hiding the wsop behind a paywall can possibly be good for the game, new players aren't even aware of the series...

Hell I'm not even aware, the coverage may have been excellent but I saw none of it lol😎👍
 
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Chris Rowbach

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  • #8
DS3 said:
Sorry, but as regards this issue I am the only person who spoke up here against PokerGo's acquiring of all WSOP materials (including historic) and that it was to the detriment of poker when it first happened. Regarding professional poker players, the only player I know that took a brief stand was Doug Polk.

I have detailed my views several times here and the fact is most didn't care.

Poker Orifice - you are correct, PokerGo streamed more live this year than they have in previous years, and it is not a high expense to subscribe. But, I will not subscribe on moral grounds as I dislike Cary Katz and the manner his family built their fortune, which was student loans. As I have noted before the idea Katz is making high roller buy-ins on the backs of students, many of which should never have been encouraged to take loans, does not sit well for me.

I am not going to go on a long tirade here, in part because I now believe that the poker industry is not truly concerned with expanding the game (this I have also explained previously) and most within the industry are happy with their slice of the poker pie. That said what I do dislike on a wider note is how both PokerGo and GG Poker have muscled into the core of the game via WSOP when, for instance, the ownership of GG Poker remains somewhat opaque (again, no one seems to really care).

But I will leave with a curious admission (mistake?) which Remko Rinkema made during the Main Event Bubble stream which showed how much PokerGo has restricted viewership. First, as I have pointed out before, the WSOP streams which previously went live to You Tube regularly attracted world viewing figures of hundreds of thousands every day - the entire WSOP racking up tens of millions of views. Further they remained on You Tube where you could watch a Main Event from any year from start to finish at ones leisure.

However, during the Main Event bubble stream, one of the most watched few hours of the entire event (perhaps only eclipsed by the final few tables) Remko was pushing for likes as they do every stream. Then Remko said something before thinking (I presume this a gaffe) he stated the viewing numbers on I believe Twitch, but then PokerGo and YouTube.

What he said was that they presently had 2,000 viewers on Twitch, that they had 2,000 on PokerGO and they 40,000 on YouTube. I was astonished he gave the figures out (providing it was true and accurate and not a verbal gaffe) because what it indicated was so few were watching on PokerGo itself. Now, you could read any number of things into this but I think it hard to make any case this is a positive for poker itself and helping the industry in any sense.

For one thing (not that this would happen) it would be really interesting to see the average, behind paywall, daily figures PokerGo enjoys and compare them to say Hustler Casino live streams let alone EPT live streams which of course go free to air as one would say.

As I love me some Alexandra Botez I am happy she spoke up, and she appears to have gotten quite a lot of support!
Even if it was 5 cents a year, it stops new people from being exposed to the game.
 
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okeedokalee

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  • #9
Youtube is only a couple of hours then it is pay per view. I agree, a pox on PokerGo. The coverage on ESPN was excellent back in the day.
 
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RENEY444

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  • #10
Its not quite as exciting watching a free youtube video well after the action is over and you already know the results .
 
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10gerka

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  • #11
the main event is shown on all platforms, but most of them you have to pay to watch it, that should change in the future.
 
teepack

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  • #12
Considering the WSOP set all sorts of attendance records this year, I don't think her argument is valid.
 
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RustyRed83

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  • #13
They do give a couple of hours for free on YouTube. As frustrating as it is, they then go behind a paywall, unfortunately it really is about making money for these companies.
 
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  • #14
Never heard of it--maybe it is like Pokemon-i dont know what that is either but I think it was big a few years ago
 
BigKulpPoker

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  • #15
teepack said:
Considering the WSOP set all sorts of attendance records this year, I don't think her argument is valid.
We aren't talking about players, we are talking about viewers, and if the argument is valid it discourages new players, you won't see that effect for a couple years. your logic is invalid.
 
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BigKulpPoker

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  • #16
The anti pay to see crowd is winning. You think PokerGo really wants to air all these free trials and give out free and discounted subscriptions? no, they are forced to. More people are baulking at it than they originally estimated.

The other funny thing is all the high name pros that were against pay to see poker, now that they own parts of PokerGo changed their tune. Its a money grab, a way for poker players to get more income to account for their variances and over all loses some have.

And they do make money airing poker on cable TV and YouTube, they just want even more. DNegs for example makes millions off his YouTube channel.
 
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KUN_AGUERO_KROOS

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  • #17
okeedokalee said:
Youtube is only a couple of hours then it is pay per view. I agree, a pox on PokerGo. The coverage on ESPN was excellent back in the day.
Yup. I prefer the coverage before PokerGo came, when ESPN made one hour episodes with some important hands, just like WPT does with their major events

Don't think the general public enjoys watching hours of people folding hands and a couple of big pots. Unless you are hardcore poker fan, it feels like watching ink dry.

And also with the produced/recorded episodes it was easier to build drama, which creates interest of the public. William Kassouf wouldn't exist without the ESPN coverage.

I don't think the two kinds of coverage are mutually exclusive.

Make people pay for the live stream and let people watch recorded episodes months later
 
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  • #18
I always liked Boxing, I never watched or followed MMA, or any other type of fight
 
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  • #19
BigKulpPoker said:
The other funny thing is all the high name pros that were against pay to see poker, now that they own parts of PokerGo changed their tune. Its a money grab, a way for poker players to get more income to account for their variances and over all loses some have.

And they do make money airing poker on cable TV and YouTube, they just want even more. DNegs for example makes millions off his YouTube channel.

The rich get richer. and we lower income players aren't allowed to voice our opinions, or choose where we want to spend our money? PokerGo and the owners can stop crying fowl all they want, I feel not sorry for them, they'll still be able to put food on their table at the end of the day.
 
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Sunz of Beaches

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  • #20
benitwapasu said:
Never heard of it--maybe it is like Pokemon-i dont know what that is either but I think it was big a few years ago
Its like writing a quality post-u have no idea what that is either, right?

On a more serious note: i was never a pokergo fan and since they handle wsop coverage i basically stopped watching.

Putting the main event coverage behind a paywall for years was a big mistake imo but whatever maybe im going to watch again now since the episodes from this year seem to be fir free on youtube abd they look very promising.
 
Branimir84

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  • #21
No Ion Mceachern and Norman Chad? Couldn't care less about the coverage.
 
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  • #22
WSOP and Jack Falaffel has ruined the experience, looka ta this years soup of venues to play at, running inbetweeen casinos in super heat can be fun as player. At least I would hate it.
 
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  • #23
Given the size of the prize money, it's even ridiculous to try to earn one dollar from the audience.
 
Poker Orifice

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  • #24
this thread has comments spoken like true freerollers.
This year's coverage was awesome! I had it going 12hrs./day , 6days/week.
 
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Mortis

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  • #25
I wouldn't go as far as saying PokerGO has ruined poker, but I do agree that the main event should have been on regular television. Having big tourneys on television would be beneficial to poker as whole, and I believe it would attract even more people during what is looking like to be another boom. Bally's tv channel has WPT, but lately they have been playing a lot more casual cash games on there.

In comparison to not having the WSOP main event on television or behind a paywall, that's like putting the Super Bowl on PPV. I know PokerGO had "previews" of the WSOP main event for free on YouTube, but still had to pay to see the end. And PokerGO isn't that much. I'm sure some people pay 1 month to watch the WSOP main event live. But just imo, I don't think the main event should be behind any paywall, whether it's a couple of bucks or not.

But with that said, PokerGO is still a good service for people who big into poker. I just don't see it helping people GET INTO poker.
 
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