question about a misdeal( or not) in a live tourney yesterday

ythelongface · Sep 15, 2009

i was playing in a live tourney at the local casino yesterday when this happened. just curious as to thoughts on if this was the correct ruling on the part of the dealer...not a huge deal imo...just one hand, and one time.

basically the dealer didnt deal to a guy who had chips, but was away from the table. a player asked if it was a misdeal, and the dealer said no, its not a misdeal, just a goof, and the hand continued. does this sound right? to my knowledge, when this has happened in the past, they did do a redeal.

tenbob · Sep 15, 2009

I've seen this rule vary depending on what casino ive been in. Usually its a readeal unless "significant" action has taken place. (ie a raise and a re-raise would be considered significant)

OzExorcist · Sep 15, 2009

Robert's Rules say you can call that a misdeal and restart the hand, but only if it's pointed out before two players have acted on their hand. In theory that includes folding, so if UTG and UTG+1 have already folded then the hand has to continue.

Tenbob is right though, there are all sorts of house rules on this one depending on which casino you're in.

natsgrampy · Sep 15, 2009

If the players remaining at the table should question the dealer before any action, then it should have been declared a misdeal. At the very least, the floor person should have been consulted before any further action occurred. If there was action by players, then I would guess it is a mute point and the hand should just be played out as it stands.
There are so many variations of the general rules depending on the house, who would have the final say.

Passion_play · Sep 15, 2009

How about if one of the cards fall face up off the table?
Was at a tourney where they used that card as the burn card, because over 2 cards had been dealt already.

Any comments on this one?

tpb221 · Sep 15, 2009

The way I have always seen it is if you get up and not at the table you are not dealt in unless you tell the dealer to put u in. The last time I played live a guy keep getting up, standing, talking to people behind him and such.(he was aways close the the table) The dealer warned him if he continued this he would not be dealt in if he was not seated when he stared dealing. I do play some live but not a great deal but I have never seen this called a misdeal. Simply he would be dealt the next hand.

Oz-The rule you mention, does this apply when you are seated and not dealt? The op said the player was away from the table. I took it he was not dealt cause he was not seated but if he was seated then yes I can see this being a misdeal.

jaggibson · Sep 15, 2009

This sounds like a definate miss deal. The thingis, what if the person returns before the dealing is complete or before actions is on him.

Example:

I was in a casino tourney and coming back from break there were like 3 of the 9 of us that were at the table when dealing started. The dealer was real slow about dealing out and by the time he was done 7 people were seated. (needless to say i was a little anoyed with the slow deal) Now if he just simply skipped them they woulda been pissed, because when you have chips you get cards end of story.

CAMurray · Sep 15, 2009

ll depends on that particular casino's or opium den's established rules for that particular occurrence.

Hambone8705 · Sep 15, 2009

Most places would technically call this a misdeal but as already stated rules vary in different places. That player did pay to play the tournament so he should be dealt all of his hands. The way I see it, everyone was dealt two random cards so as long as the player did not come back before it was his turn to act, given nobody else at the table had a problem with it, RUN IT!

Passion_play said:
How about if one of the cards fall face up off the table?
Was at a tourney where they used that card as the burn card, because over 2 cards had been dealt already.

Any comments on this one?

Was it during the initial dealing? If so, then misdeal! If it was flipped up while somebody was folding or something to that effect then the card is just exposed, everyone gets to see it and the hand continues.

natsgrampy · Sep 15, 2009

jaggibson said:
This sounds like a definate miss deal. The thingis, what if the person returns before the dealing is complete or before actions is on him.

Example:

I was in a casino tourney and coming back from break there were like 3 of the 9 of us that were at the table when dealing started. The dealer was real slow about dealing out and by the time he was done 7 people were seated. (needless to say i was a little anoyed with the slow deal) Now if he just simply skipped them they woulda been pissed, because when you have chips you get cards end of story.

When you are in a tourney, and are away from the table, you should be dealt into the game and the hand considered dead, as soon as the dealing is finished, not when it is your turn to act.

Grossberger · Sep 15, 2009

Passion_play said:
How about if one of the cards fall face up off the table?
Was at a tourney where they used that card as the burn card, because over 2 cards had been dealt already.

Any comments on this one?

as long as the SB and BB have got their first card then that card is used as a burn if another card is flipped then its a misdeal. Also deal continues in order and the player that the crad flip over on would get what would have been the burn card, and player does not have a choice of keeping the card.

Grossberger · Sep 15, 2009

Passion_play said:
How about if one of the cards fall face up off the table?
Was at a tourney where they used that card as the burn card, because over 2 cards had been dealt already.

Any comments on this one?

Hambone8705 said:
Was it during the initial dealing? If so, then misdeal! If it was flipped up while somebody was folding or something to that effect then the card is just exposed, everyone gets to see it and the hand continues.

Not true only if it is one of the first 2 cards dealt or more than 1 card is flipped otherwise it is just used as a burn card and deal continues as normal. see previous post for remaining rules on this happening.

OzExorcist · Sep 16, 2009

Grossberger said:
Not true only if it is one of the first 2 cards dealt or more than 1 card is flipped otherwise it is just used as a burn card and deal continues as normal. see previous post for remaining rules on this happening.

^ this. Though again, some casinos or card rooms or home game may deviate from this rule.

tpb221 said:
Oz-The rule you mention, does this apply when you are seated and not dealt? The op said the player was away from the table. I took it he was not dealt cause he was not seated but if he was seated then yes I can see this being a misdeal.

The rule says it's a misdeal if:

(j) A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante.

We don't actually know if they'd posted a blind/ante or not, and apparently that makes a difference. And again, I strongly suspect this one will vary from room to room. The procedure we use, for example, is to deal a hand to the empty seat and then muck it if they're not back in time to act on it. We've got a much more laid back clientelle than casinos for the most part though, so it's as much an adaptation for them as anything.

StormRaven · Sep 16, 2009

OzExorcist said:
^ this. Though again, some casinos or card rooms or home game may deviate from this rule.

The rule says it's a misdeal if:

(j) A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante.

We don't actually know if they'd posted a blind/ante or not, and apparently that makes a difference. And again, I strongly suspect this one will vary from room to room. The procedure we use, for example, is to deal a hand to the empty seat and then muck it if they're not back in time to act on it. We've got a much more laid back clientelle than casinos for the most part though, so it's as much an adaptation for them as anything.

This is the rule the casino I play at goes by for ring games. For tourneys they must deal the player in but if the player is not at the table and is not in a blind then their cards are immediately pulled and mucked.

*On a side note, most of the time the dealers where I play will deal you in if they see you are on your way to your seat. But technically they are not supposed to unless you are in your seat.

tpb221 · Sep 16, 2009

OzExorcist;1294017 The rule says it's a misdeal if: [INDENT said:
(j) A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante.[/indent]We don't actually know if they'd posted a blind/ante or not, and apparently that makes a difference. And again, I strongly suspect this one will vary from room to room. The procedure we use, for example, is to deal a hand to the empty seat and then muck it if they're not back in time to act on it. We've got a much more laid back clientelle than casinos for the most part though, so it's as much an adaptation for them as anything.

StormRaven said:
This is the rule the casino I play at goes by for ring games. For tourneys they must deal the player in but if the player is not at the table and is not in a blind then their cards are immediately pulled and mucked.

I was thinking this was a ring game when I posted. Now I see this was a tourney. Yes, in tourney play I've always seen them deal the empty seat then muck the cards If not back in time to act . Never seen them call it a misdeal though if they miss a empty seat. House rules most likey.

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question about a misdeal( or not) in a live tourney yesterday

ythelongface

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